Talk:Russian Revolution (1905)

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Contents 1 Lots of boilerplate 2 A suggestion... 3 French Article 4 First Sentences 5 The Bloody Sunday photograph 6 Intro paragraph and pre-revolution assumptions 7 Intro Paragraph 8 Knowledge Gap 9 Repressive Action 10 Lacking significient information 11 Aftermath

[edit] Lots of boilerplate

Much of this article is written like a revolutionary pamphlet, with a great deal of hyperbolic accusation but precious little factual description. Actions are too often characterized rather than described. Instead of being told there was "oppression," I would like to hear what police actually did. Also, the word "persecution" was applied to revolutionaries, despite the fact that revolutionary activity is always illegal in every country, and prosecuting revolutionaries is neither technically nor connotatively equivalent to persecution. I really hope to see some of this revolutionary boilerplate replaced with some encyclopedia-like relating of facts or sourced material. Preston McConkie 13:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A suggestion...

This page has no sources, and the only external link is broken.

I would like to point out that the last sentence of the third paragraph of "background", ending in "as the country lacked an industrial proletariat at the time," is inconsistant with all of the references to "the workers" and the unions. The correction, which I have added, should read "as, in his opinion, the country lacked a significant body of industrial proletariats at the time." /Hal

200 killed 800 wounded Religion Jewish

>> Vladimir Ilionovich (Lenin)

Really?.. What's with the "Ilionovich" bit? --Bicycle repairman 02:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey um, on this page the "See also 'Russian History 18...' etc. is in italics, but on the Russian Revolution of 1917 it isn't. I'd fix it myself but I don't know which way is the right way.. nitpicky but thought I'd throw it out there. :) -Hawk

Hey guys i have to do a paper on the russian revolution and that time period and i cant find much on the people at the time i mean it talks about the workers conditions but i cant find anything on the peoples clothes or homes or way of life there is stuff on that time period but its all based in america and england by the way my grand uncle fought in russia during 1917 near the end of ww1 he was an american soldier it would help if i had ever met him darn oh well

{19:56 7feb06} i just wanted to say that 

-your frustrated friend-

In the first sentence of Background is says "which in 1905 was headed by Nicholas II, of the House of Romanov. " but the link goes to Czar Alexander's page also the Alexander II was a major reformer and he introduced reforms in local goverment and the judicial system.

[edit] French Article

I was wondering there is a French copy of this article however it isn't linked from the links on the left. Is there any way this could be rectified, I dont know how Change is necessary

using a little ingenuity i did it. change is necessary

[edit] First Sentences

The "Empire-wide spasm" sentence needs work. It sounds really unacademic.

yes, especially since Russia WASN'T an empire - although their nation was large, they had no oversea colonies... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.191.184.194 (talk) 10:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Bloody Sunday photograph

Is there any proof that the photograph was, in fact, taken that day? I recall reading somewhere that the image, well known though it may be, is actually a still from a later historical melodrama (possibly one by Eisenstein). 129.128.67.22 22:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro paragraph and pre-revolution assumptions

The intro of this article is too long and is more less half the article. In addition I take some issue with assertions such as unrest had been a regular part of the Russian Empire, serious disturbances had been rare in the decades prior to 1905 as there were multiple and very important armed and unarmed uprisings in Russia prior to 1905 that played a direct role in the '05 Revolution. Active revolutionaries were drawn almost exclusively from the intelligentsia makes it sound as the foundation for the revolution was based soley in the ranks of the academics which, of course, is also not true. Under Alexander III the Russian police political service (the Okhrana) acted very effectively to suppress both revolutionaries and proto-democratic movements across the country. discounts the virtual training ground that Siberian exile towns became and the large amount of revolutionary pusblishments and thought flowing into the country from the exile community.

There is also a notable lack of comment on the late arrival of the Bolshevik and Menshevik core in the events of the uprising and the exception that Trotsky played to this rule. This is an important point as the 1905 revolution was one of the earliest events that lead to Trotsky becoming arguably the people's most popular revolutionary leaders in Russia. Any thoughts on the best way to breakdown the intro section and address these other issues? NeoFreak 21:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what the introduction looked like in 2006, but when I looked at it, it was around two lines long! The intro is in many ways the most important part of an article, so I have been trying to expand it a bit to provide a very brief summary of the revolutions cause, course and effects. Any help greatly appreciated -- it should be short, but it should provide a useful summary. Larry Dunn 17:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro Paragraph

The introduction paragraph states that 95% of Russia's population was made up of the industrial working class (proletariat), when in fact, only a small portion of Russia's population was made up of actual industrial workers. I do not recall the actual number of urban workers in Russia at the time, but I know that the vast majority of Russia's population in 1905 was made up of peasants, not industrial workers.

Also, the phrase "generally lorded it over the peasants" doesn't sound particularly academic.

The Bloody Sunday section also needs work. It seems to be slanted toward an anti-Tsarist standpoint, and does not tell all of the events that occurred on Bloody Sunday. I believe that more should be added to this section, telling of the other circumstances surrounding the Bloody Sunday massacre, perhaps some of the uncertainty regarding the origin of the military action, or that Tsar Nicolas was not actually at the Winter Palace at the time, and that he expressed sypmpathy about the massacre.

Patoenojado 02:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Knowledge Gap

While this article remains good as an outline of the events of the Russian Revolution of 1905, I feel that it lacks in one key area. The Article seems to jump from the events of the Bulygin Manifesto/rescript, to the general strike, without recognition of why the workers actions were growing stronger. I feel a mention of the organisation of the soviet workers groups would do well here to recognise the increase in the power, and organisation of the workers to opose the Tsar. Regards Brin

[edit] Repressive Action

I removed the last line of the "Background" section: "In 1903 one-third of the Russian army in western Russia had engaged in 'repressive action' upon the enemy." There is no indication who the enemy was, while the context hints that one third of soldiers may have been involved in repressing uprisings or unrest. With clarity, I'm sure this statement should be put back in. Preston McConkie 13:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lacking significient information

This is article is lacking significant information regarding the strongest area of revolt and longest period of resistance that happened during this events in Polish provinces of Russian Empire. --Molobo 10:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I invite you to start an article on that. Please find the title for these events in the academic literature to use it for the article's title and create a stub. Articles about Russia are not articles about Poland no matter how much unimportant the non-PL related issues of Russian history may seem to you and vice versa. --Irpen 10:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not about Poland, as it didn't exist back then, but about Russian Empire's Polish provinces. Similar to information about Finland which is already here--Molobo 10:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

If, as you say, "Poland didn't exist", how come the "History of Poland" series includes the article about this period? Looks like Poland existed. It's just that its independence did not exist back then, true enough. Lots of things happened in lots of provinces of the Russian empire. There are separate articles for that, for example details on the events that took place in the Governorates of Bessarabiya, Volhynia, Yekaterinoslav, Kiev, Podolsk, Poltava, taurida, Kharkov, Khreson and Chernigov belong to the Ukrainian history articles as well as the narrow articles about these territories. Respectively, what happened in Kovna and Vilna governorates belong to respective Polish and Lithuanian articles.

As I said, start a sourced article titled according to an existing terminology. Once there is something there, we can discuss how much from it belongs here. I know you would rather add 2-3 paragraphs about Poland directly to this RU-related article. But please no more Russian Enlightenment/Ded Moroz-tricks. --Irpen 12:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

History of Poland involves all territories that were once of it and are connected to its existance and activity. As events in 1905 in Polish areas had their own specific they deserve a seperate section just like events in Finland, I see no reason not to do this-your personal opinion that certain events in Russian Empire's history are to be ignored is not within any Wikipedia policy, and like said before-Finland is already covered. History of Polish provinces of Russian Empire is history of Russian Empire, no matter how much disliked by some people. Also please assume good faith rathre then throw baseless and insulting accusations regarding other contributors work by saying they are using some "tricks" (what for? is there some cabal or agenda ? please let us be serious). --Molobo 14:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Molobo raises a very important point. I am writing an article on Łódź insurrection (1905), and a modern Polish encyclopedia ([1]) in an article on Revolution in Polish Kingdom (1905-1907) states: Królestwo Polskie było głównym ogniskiem walk rewolucyjnych 1905-1907 w całym imperium rosyjskim. which is translated as Kingdom of Poland was the center of revolutionary fights of 1905-1907 in the entire Russian Empire.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aftermath

Replaced reference to Decembrists with reference to Octobrists. ParlorSoldier (talk) 10:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)