Talk:Russian Cultural Center in Lviv

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[edit] References from nationalist sites

References from biased, Russian unltra-nationalist sites like Единая Русь are unacceptable in an encyclopedic article. It features among a number of outrageous things, also a call for violation of territorial integrity of Ukraine[1]. Even though it is illegal in Ukraine, it should not be used here as well. An attempt to list this ultra-nationalist site as a "source" speaks volume about the neutrality of this article. Please consider removing this hateful garbage. The NPOV should stay until the question of sources per WP:Verifiability is addressed.--Hillock65 17:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I hope there is understanding that we need to cite realiable sources, and avoid spam. I agree with Hillock65's assessment of edrus.org as a questionable source. Also, the article cites a press-release of the Russian Movement of Ukraine. This is a self-published source. It's not a reliable source either, because it's not an independent source of information, but if it is included, it needs to be clearly attributed as a press-release of an involved party. --Novelbank 22:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Nonsense. You must prove that the site is nationalistic. Russianname 15:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I am glad that you've changed your mind and removed that link to the ultra-nationalist site. The proof that it speads Russian nationalist hate is in the link above. --Hillock65 16:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Now I refreshed the links. He-he, now try to prove that the Ukrainian-speaking sites are nationalistic too :)) BR to reasanable people Russianname 15:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First of its kind

The article says that the center was "the first of its kind to be open in the USSR". Exactly, what are the specifics of the center that make it to be the first of its kind? -Novelbank 22:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Aha, yes. Now we can see who are russophobes here :)) OK, I found the page :) Russianname 15:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Please, be serious. The article says that the center is the first of its kind in the USSR. But it does not explain what is so specific about the center that makes it to be the first of its kind. There were Russian theaters, churches, libraries in Ukraine (and in USSR) long before the opening of this center. You only mentioned in the article that there is a library at the center with 8,000 books. Hopefully, it's not the case that the center was the first of its kind in the USSR because there were only Russian books there, given that in the public libraries across Ukraine in the Sovet times there were both Russian and Ukrainian books. I hope you see that it would be beneficial for the article to provide more details about the center to make it clear why the center is called to be the first of its type. --Novelbank 20:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

This was a first time a centre whose mission was to keep a national culture was formed. If you are interested just check the links in the preferences. M.V.E.i. 21:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please do not insert biased and one-sided text

You keep inserting reference to mystical Ukrainian chauvinists: The RCC has been attacked and vandalized several times by Ukrainian chauvivnists. First of all, there is no proof that those were Ukrainians, and there certainly has been no proof that those were chauvinists. None on the cited sources support these two outlandish allegations. --Hillock65 14:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to enter the preferences and read. I dont think slogans like "ukraine-for ukrainians" will be written by the lost african tribe Mumba-Yumba. If people vandalize others property shouting "Russian go home", or "Ukraine for Ukrainians" (thought weirdly, East and South Ukraine are historicaly Russian given to them as a gift Stalin. Lviv and the rest West Ukraine, are historicaly Polish, and shoot me, but they also were given to Ukraine by Stalin!), they are chauvivnists, and of the worst type. M.V.E.i. 21:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I will not tag the article for a while, but please provide verbatum confirmation from the source in whatever language it is that these words were indeed said: "The leader of attackers declared that everything in Ukraine belonged to the Ukrainians, so the Moskals and the kikes were not allowed to reside or have property there." As I recall vandalism happened when nobody was there, so who heard that and confirms it. Quotation, please and page number. --Hillock65 22:50, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Here are some links:

http://www.rdu.org.ua/news.php?content=1056443837&path=arc&subpath=2003.6 no one will say "our territory" in Lviv unless there Ukrainians.

About the "ukraine-for ukrainians" just buy Provisins books sbout this centre. In the book by Sukurov, Ocherki Istoriyi Russkovo Natzionalno-Kulturnovo Dvijeniye V Galitzii(1988—1993) its actually written how a leader of the vandals said that "everything in ukraine belongs to ukrainians" (the stupidity. Lviv was added by Russia to Ukraine from Poland, and so are Vinitza and the rest of West Ukraine. The Ukrainians their while it was Poland were slaves their, and Russian libirated them. East and South Ukraine have nothing to do with Ukraine but are Russian. So infact, the Ukrainian nationalists not only should not vandalise, but should clean the Russian culture centre with their tounges). M.V.E.i. 08:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood me again, I don't want your opinion on this question, I want direct quotation. For example, the author (...name) on p. (...number) says the following (... please copy the sentence from the book). This is a simple request, please word for word from the source about what the attackers declared. No opinions, just the source, or I will tag the article and the remove the reference as dubious. --Hillock65 11:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Сокуров С. А. Очерки истории русского национально-культурного движения в Галиции (1988—1993 годы) — М.: "Клуб «Реалисты», 1999. — C. 8 ISBN 966-7617-65-3
It describes the first pogroms on the place, and how a leader of those who came into the place said "in ukraine everything belongs to ukrainians". If you would READ what i write you you would see i already TOLD YOU ALL THAT before. Many times there also were anti-Jewish slogans written on the walls by the vandals (but like, WTF?). BUY THE BOOK, and read it. M.V.E.i. 17:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Please stop this! I asked you a concrete, quite legitimate question, instead you write hidden obscenities ( e.g. WTF) and ignore the request. I want to make sure you are not misrepresenting the source, if you have the source as you claim, provide citation and page number and stop stalling this issue. You, who put it there, I don't have to buy anything, you have to prove it is faithful and legitimeate. This is the last time I am going to ask you, next I will remove biased and unsubstantiated quote. --Hillock65 18:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Pages 42-43. Citation, what one of them said during the vandalisation act: "The leader of the nationalists said that in Ukraine everything belongs to Ukrainians, while they were turening everything upside down. Later, he said that moskals and zhidi ("kikes" should not leave or have propertty there". And another quotes: And about your threats, you are not the boss here. You dont decide the ruls. M.V.E.i. 19:21, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
If you live in Ukraine it's possible to get the book by ordering. If you live in Lviv, it's easy for you. M.V.E.i. 19:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)