Talk:Russian Blue

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[edit] Strangers and affection

The article states that Russian Blues are not shy around strangers. However, most profiles of this breed indicate that the cat, whilst loving and affectionate with people it knows, is very wary of people it does not know, usually hiding from them and observing the newcomer from a distance. See the websites listed in the article-links for examples of such profiles.

This would certainly tally with my own experience of the breed. My Russian loved his family but would set up an exclusion zone around strangers and take his time in negotiating a relationship. --192.11.185.115 10:11, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
I've updated the page to reflect this. --192.11.185.115 13:03, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Not that it matters anymore, but I third the hiding from strangers and loving the well-known persons thing. --maru (talk) contribs 00:51, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I third that. Russians in my experience are *very loving* and highly attached to their owners, but are quite timid around people they do not know. In a household, there's a good chance they will get highly attached a single person (hopefully the owner but not necessarily LOL!). They prefer to observe from a distance and may or may not get close even after extended periods of time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Markatl84 (talk • contribs) 04:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Archangel Cat?

I've read many cat breed handbooks and quite a few of them have listed that the Russian Blue Cat breed is also known as an "Archangel Cat" because of it's distinct origins. I suggest that this be noted in the article...

Provide legit sources and you can do it. If I see anything I'll let you know. -Emevas 19:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Arkhangelsk means "Archangel" in Russian. It's already (kinda) in the article. Idsfa 06:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind, found a citation and added it to the page. Same citation also supports the Siamese mixing and the Black and White colors. Don't know how/if I could indicate that ... still a newb here.Idsfa 16:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] broken link

This link (Dr. Eric Johnson's home page) was on the article's page under external links. Since it appears to be broken, I moved it here for safe keeping. [1] Keesiewonder 00:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allergy

Hello: I was wondering if people are allergic to this breed of cat.

I suppose as with any allergy, it is possible. I have never known a cat allergy to be discriminatory to race, but maybe. Come to think of it, I had a friend who was allergic to cats, and she was also allergic to my Russian Blue, so more than likely. -Emevas 19:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I do recall reading that the Russian Blue causes less of an allergic problem than the typical cat, but I cannot find a source at the moment.--SmokeyJoe 11:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Please. If you could verify this it would be helpful, thank you :)

I, like Emevas, also have a friend who is allergic to cats and who is also allergic to my Russian Blue. However, it is said here and there that Russian Blues are less of a problem with respect to allergies. Three not particularly good references returned by google are below:

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/petplanet/breeds/Russian_Blue.htm

“Grooming & Upkeep Like most shorthair breeds the Russian Blue does not require much grooming … “ “Shedding Little”

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/lp_cats/article/0,2041,DIY_14060_2272979,00.html

“they don't shed, and they don't have hairballs. The former makes them a good choice for people who may have allergies to other breeds.”

http://www.gopetsamerica.com/profiles/russianblue.aspx

“Shedding: Little” “Cause Allergies: None”

So, it is said that Russian Blues are less of a problem with respect to allergies, but my opinion is that this information is unreliable. I think it is little more that due to the fact that Russian Blues tend not to leave fur around, and so you are less likely to end up breathing it. SmokeyJoe 10:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I actually purchased my Russian Blue in large part due to their reputation for causing less allergic reactions than other breeds. At least with the two cats I have, this has been true. Not only am I not allergic to them (I tried to test this at the breeders house as much as possible before buying), but I have had at least three other people who are allergic to cats in general NOT react to my Russian Blues! From what I understand, there are actually different types of allergies you can have to a cat. I believe the two most common allergens produced by cats are their saliva (which they, of course, lick all over themselves) and their dander. In the case of Russian Blues, I believe (do not know this to be 100% fact) that the dander allergy is reduced or eliminated for many people. If you are a cat allergy sufferer, it is definitely worth looking into and testing on your own IMO. I can also say that they shed quite a bit less than most cats (except when they change coats), and that is another plus. Markatl84 05:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


Please stop removing the fact that the russian blue is hypoallergenic. I am the owner of 3 of these cats and I am allergic to every other cat on the planet except these. My cats have GC lines and most breeders, including mine, will verify that the cats are hypoallergenic. Here are the links to a breeder verifying this fact flat out on the front page: http://www.xcalibur-bouviers.com/ and if you wish to verify the fact with other breeders, just go down the breeder list and call each one. As for saying there is no proof that the cat is hypoallergenic, refer to this article which has evidence that no cat is hypoallergenic: http://www.cat-world.com.au/Hypoallergenic.htm per scientific research as they each produce the same amount of FEL D1, no matter the breed. So I believe this is significant proof to say that there are no breeds that are truly hypoallergenic and only breeds known by their breeders and owners that attest for a cat breed being less irritating then other breeds. For this reason, I will reinsert that the russian blue is hypoallergenic as breeders across the US support this statement. 11/29/07 T —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.225.43 (talk) 21:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi T.,
“Weasel words” are perhaps a bit insulting. Sorry. “Pseudo citations” might be a more appropriate term. The text you added alleged the existence of a “fact”, but didn’t properly cite this fact. “breeders and owners know” is not a citation to a reliable source, as we require.
Have you considered that your fact might be an urban myth? In many places, it has been claimed that Russian Blues are hypoallergenic, but never have I found the claim to be referenced to a reliable source. Above (17 January 2007), I provide three such claims, each looking pretty unreliable to me. You provided another citation (http://www.xcalibur-bouviers.com/), which I suggest is also of dubious reliability. Who is this breeder and how do they know what they think they know? Are these breeders just repeating the urban myth because it is good marketing? Perhaps we can get away with using the four references to say “it is commonly claimed that Russian Blues are hypoallergenic”. But steer clear of implying that the claim is a “fact” or that it is “known” by anyone without a clear, reliable source. Your other link (http://www.cat-world.com.au/Hypoallergenic.htm), which might be judged reliable, actually contradicts the fact. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


Smokey,
First let me say that I respect you for contributing so much to wikipedia and the time you spend doing it. However, I do disagree with your method for verifying data, you even said I did not reference an entire section when I paraphrased right off of the CFA website of the breed profile, which is the first reference in the resource section. Therefore, I think you are eager to jump the gun on things. To respond to your statements above...
That breeder is a recognized breeder with GC (Grand Champion, which means best in the nation for its breed) lines. Therefore, someone who is able to raise an animal that ends up being considered the Best of its entire breed in the world, would be someone knowledgeable about the breed, I am pretty confident that is safe to assume. As I stated, feel free to call any of the breeders who are recognized by the CFA, list can be found here: http://www.breedlist.com/breeders/rus.html. My breeder, the arizona listing, have been breeding these cats since the 70's, so I am pretty sure they know the breed better then nearly anyone out there. My newest kitten has both GC Sir and Dam, (mom and dad are both considered the best in the nation for the entire breed) and is in a house with 3 people allergic to cats. However, we are able to breath perfectly fine and I have never suffered any symptoms from these animals. Yet at my mothers house, from her maine coon and common household cats, I am constantly sneezing and my head feels like it will fall off and roll on the floor. My veterinarian, who graduated from Cornell (the best vet school for felines) also states that the cat is what is known to the common public as being hypoallergenic in nature, meaning that due to the coat structure on the animal, less of the substance that causes allergies spreads throughout the air. Notice how she addressed it, as what is known to the common public. The article I linked, states that no cat is truly hypoallergenic, meaning, every cat does produce levels of the allergy substance. However, certain breeds are known not to spread it as much as other breeds, these breeds are what are known to the public as hypoallergenic. These cats shed minimally due to their cleaning habits. I have white couches and 3 of these cats, and if you entered my house, you would not even believe I had 3 cats living here. By shedding minimally, these cats do not release as much of the allergy substance. This was stated by another user above as well.
The other link I posted is also me showing you that you can find a source on the net stating everything and anything, that entire article contradicts the wikipedia article about hypoallergenic animals. I am pretty sure there are websites with undeniable proff that the lunar landing never happened. There are two sides to every story, but it doesnt mean that they are the truth. Hence why I understand that you want everything linked to a source you can find via google. Believe it or not, before the internet was around, books and professional opinions were important. You seem to only be getting resources for this article by typing in "russian blue" in google. Which, I am glad you are taking the time to do so, but if you notice, a majority of the breeders do not have websites, therefore accurate information regarding these animals from the people who know them the best is not readily available.
My point is this, unless you have a first hand experience with this animal, then you are no more qualified to edit an article regarding them then I do writing an article about the 4 years you spent in high school and what you learned during that time, anyone can type a few things into google. You say that I don't have sources to back up my claim; yet I own 3 of these animals, my vet who graduated from Cornell with a degree relative to felines, breeders, and my personal doctor seem to all agree with the statements I have made. Just because it isn't on the internet yet, doesn't mean it isn't true, hence why I have taken the time over the past two days to rewrite the article to give an accurate instead of mythological perspective of the breed. I have also provided you with links containing contact information to people who will verify this information, including every registered breeder in the US for this breed.
If you can define to me a more reliable source then a veterinarian with a degree from Cornell vet school for felines(http://www.vet.cornell.edu/) or a breeder of the animal for over 30 years, then please do so, but I doubt you will. So please don't use negative language towards me or anyone else anymore just because you can't find proof via google.
Continue to help maintain this website, however do so with an open mind and heart. Thanks -Tracy 11/30/07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.225.43 (talk) 09:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I have tagged this claim as unverified. Please provide an inlined reliable source (as suggested in the policy) so that we can stop going back and forth over it. As the policy states, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." ie, it is not good enough for something to be true, you need a good documented source. Perhaps the vet you cite has published a paper on the subject in a peer reviewed journal? That would be an excellent reference for you to include. Thanks. Idsfa 03:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

As a breeder of Russian Blues, what I will add to this diiscussion i: 1. Russian Blues do shed. However, their undercoat is very fine and thus they don't appear to shed as much as many other breeds. 2. There have been ancedotal cases (as opposed to scientific studies) that some (but by no means all) people who have allergies to cats *may* be less all allergic to Russians (based on what we have see in the pet owner population) - as in the case of the poster above. Most breeders do not advertise them as being hypoallergenic though. My suggestion is that is this facet is to be mentioned at all, to list it as 'anecdotal evidence."h Tkeiger 17:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)tkeiger

Tracy, I’ve attempted to include the information you provided above into the article. Please improve it, with citations to documented evidence (printed or web), but not to things that you “know”. I strongly disagree with your point that contributors must have first hand experience. Everyone is welcome to edit wikipedia. All information contained should attributable to reliable sources. Notions of “appeal to expertise” are, and always have been, rejected at wikipedia. All information is only as reliable as the sources provided. Please accept my apology for my apparent blindness when reading the CFA website. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit]  :O

Is that Happycat?!

No, I thik that might be a grey tabby, Id need a better pic. --Emevas 01:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, here's another one, if it helps. --ZBrisk 20:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yellow Eyes

Emevas wrote:

Hello, I saw the comment on the rewording of Russian Blue having Yellow Eyes.

Although I agree with your rewording, I am wondering if you have a source proving that yellow eyes are an imperfection found only in non-pedigrees. If you can prove this, I would like to see it, becasue my russian blue had yellow eyes, and he was a pure bred. Thanks. --Emevas 06:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Emevas, I hope you don't mind me copying your question here. I think it is an interesting question about Russian Blues.

I made the edit to a statement about yellow eyes being rare. Yellow eyes are not rare, in my opinion. Green eyes are the official standard, and so yellow eyed Russian Blues are not presented at cat shows, and, I suspect, tend to be more readily sold to non-breeders. Yellow eyed Russians are certainly found in pedigrees, I too have seen them. The breed, as per any breed, is not "pure", but contains variations. Unfortunately, none of my books on cats, or the websites I have found, comment on yellow eyes, and I too would like to see more sources added to the article.

I did comment "yellow eyes are an imperfection, common in non-pedigree russian blues", but by this I did not mean to suggest that yellow eyes are a sign that a cat is non-pedigree. SmokeyJoe 09:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I did in fact hope that this would get cleared up. I think it's an interesting question. I have seen a few (about 4 or so including Ozy, one was his sister) Russian Blues with yellow eyes -Never at a catshow- but I have. Probabally just some kind of genetic mutation in the breed, after all, Yellow eyes are a superior gene, where as green or blue eyes are reccesive. We should try to get the ball rolling on finding out more on the topic.
Thanks! --Emevas 19:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Regarding yellow eyes:

a yellowish eye colour can be found in Russian Blue kittens (see TICA breed standard), however are, according to the breed standard of TICA and FIFE, regarded as a fault in adult Russian Blues.

Consequently yellow eyes would mean fewer points in the show ring, however I am unsure whether yellow eye colour would actually disqualify an adult cat from the ring. After reading the breed standards it does not appear so...

Breed standards of the Russian Blue(the links can perhaps be included at the bottom of the article?)(ah they are already included... good work): FIFE(Fédération Internationale Féline): http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/breeds/breeds_prf_stn.html CFA: http://www.cfa.org/breeds/standards/russian.html GCCF: http://www.russianblue.org.uk/intro.html (NB: This link is from the British Russian Blue Association who have reprinted the breed standard with permission from the GCCF). TICA: http://www.ticaeo.com/Content/Publications/Pages/RB.pdf

Any purebred Russian Blue may have faults, however these faults does not make these cats any less lovable, or endearing, only less qualified as show cats:)

Lunde 23:17, 30 January 2007 (GMT)

Yeah, I loved my kitty. He had the same temperment of any other blues, especially his mother. My theory is that since yellow eyes are a superior gene in cats, that it could just be a genetic mustation. Or perhaps some female blue a ways back got "tainted" from breeding with one with yellow eyes, and thus the trait keeps happening. Either way, it is appearently increasingly more common. --Emevas 02:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

- :) Probably, adorable creatures these Russians anyways...

Example of Vivid green eyes from the Finish Wiki Russian Blue page, perhaps we can use this picture? However, not sure if I understood the copyright laws in Finish though...

Russian Blue cat
Russian Blue.
Vivid Green Eyes

No, yellow eyes are not a disqualifiable fault...actually their disqualifiable faults are "kinked or abnormal tail. Locket or button. Incorrect number of toes. Any color other than blue. Long coat." (http://cfa.org/breeds/standards/russian.html) Yes, it would lower their scoring in the show ring; however, eye color is only 10 points.

[edit] Pointed colours

I removed, the text on pointed colours. I have never read anything like this, and if it to be reintroduced I hope a source to a breed profile which actually says this can be included. Hope this is ok:0)

[User:Lunde|Lunde]] 15:08, 09 February 2007 (GMT)

You removed Brando71's image and caption. I guess that the "pointed" colours that he refers to is the same as the silve-blue "tipping" described in the first paragraph of the article. As such, there is no need to repeat the description, unless a special point is being made, and certainly not using a different term. The image does show the silve-blue tipping well, but unfortunately, it is in poor focus. Interestingly, Image:ReinaAriel.jpg happens to show an example of a russian blue with yellow-green eyes. SmokeyJoe 23:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know pointed cats are cats with darker spots, like the Siamese, or the Birman. Consequently it would not only be unnecessary, but wrong to say the Russian has a pointed pattern, even silver... (See Fife on pointed patterns: http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/breeds/breeds_ems.html#Patterns) Yes, I agree, the yellow-green eyes aspect is interesting, especially after the discussions...:D Perhaps the cat was young?

Lunde 02:15, 13 February 2007 (GMT)


(just to clarify questions that have come up) The pointed pattern (when it does occur) comes from the recessive pointed gene acquired when the breed was briefly outcrossed to the blue point Siamese. The cat would have a white body with blue coloration at the feet, tail, ears, and face. It is relatively rare and not desirable....CFA does not allow registration of Russian Blues with this pattern.

The silver blue tipping is just that....the guard hairs are blue, with the very tips of them being silver.

The desired eye color is a vivid true green. Some Russians never get good green eye color, even as adults.Tkeiger 16:44, 5 July 2007 (UTC)tkeiger

I had a pet owner (who love photographing her Blues) send me a photo last night - it's a very good example of the ear placment, top head, and eye color. Just added it. Tkeiger 17:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)tkeiger

[edit] Photograph Changes

I removed the third picture from the sidebar after Brando71's latest edit replacing with . Not only was the picture improperly sized (crushing the article text over to the left), but the image did not illustrate anything not already shown in the other images. Neither did its predecessor. I understand the temptation to put up pictures of your own pet, but please restrict these to pictures which add to the article. Idsfa 22:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure it was there pet?Jesusinmysock 19:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


I have a closeup of my cat here - didn't add it to the page directly because I am not sure of the correct conventions here, but anyone else is welcome to do so. I will get a full body and tail shot as requested and will post it here too.

-- A.Alexismanning (talk) 00:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


I do not feel that the new photo for the article is representative of the breed. The ears are oddly angled. The old image that I posted I felt was much more representative. example:

Markatl84 (talk) 06:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Markat, I think I agree. Would you be able to provide a full-body shot including tail? I removed the size parameter on you picture above, changing to thumb. It is better to let images default to thumbnails, where the size displayed is set by your preferences. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:38, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that the current kitten photo shows anything at all about the breed. I just finished a product shot for someone, and one of our boys volunteered to model....one is a great full body shot that is very representative of the breed...will upload shortly. Tkeiger (talk) 15:09, 31 March 2008 (UTC) tkeiger

  • Ok we have one good photo, we really need a second one to complete the article 203.122.240.118 (talk) 07:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
    • anything in particular we're looking for?? I'll be happy to shoot. Tkeiger (talk) 16:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)tkeiger

[edit] Cat breed of Tom in Tom and Jerry

I've moved this contribution

Russian blue is also the cat breed of Tom in Tom and Jerry.

here because it is unverified, either here, or on the Tom and Jerry page. If verified, it would be an interesting note. --SmokeyJoe 06:54, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I had a pet owner (who love photographing her Blues) send me a photo last night - it's a very good example of the ear placment, top head, and eye color. Just added it. Tkeiger 17:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)tkeiger

I also just removed the reference to "Pet Sematary" From the few images on the 'net that I could see, it was (if any breed) a British Shorthair..... which would make sense as Scott and Thora Hart (longtime animal trainers) breed BSH's). AND a RB really doesn't have the temperament for this type of training Tkeiger 18:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)tkeiger a

[edit] Flagged for WikiFication

VanTucky flagged this page for wikification. I have gone through and added links where they were appropriate. Absent additional comment, I will remove this flag in a few days if VanTucky doesn't. Idsfa 03:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Country Specific and Personification

I have place a cleanup notice on this page RE: it beung very USA specific and somewhat "we, i, us" which is not exactly encyclopedia friendly (not all but most)

Where possible can this be errected.

EG "that we see in the US today" should be "that is seen in the US today"

--Prom3th3an (talk) 12:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

One poorly worded sentence is not enough to label an article as country specific. I cleaned the sentence up a little. VMS Mosaic (talk) 21:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The sentance was an example as i said, i can pull out plenty more examples of USA specific breed descriptions if you want.... 203.122.240.118 (talk) 04:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

I do not agree that a cleanup tag is warranted. While it is not good article quality, it is not bad. Prom3th3an's preference for passive tense is not enough to call for a cleanup. Such piddlng things can be fixed on sight. I don't agree that this article is any more US centric than wikipedia as a whole, or that there is a problem. Any specific concerns can be raised here. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Do not remove a globalise tag without a sufficent discussion first, doing so is a violation of wikipeida rules.

The links are representative of North America only and i have inserted another globalise tag.

This has to be fixed especialy as Russian BLue.org is borderline on advertising for a non profit organisation, when you go to thier website it clearly says "serving north america only". Hence weather you like it or not that is not wikipedia friendly for both reasons listed bove.

203.122.240.118 (talk) 04:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rationale for hypoallergenicity

I have removed the sentence ascribing a rationale fro the purported hypoallergenicity (copied below).

The hypoallergenic qualities are ascribed to its very fine undercoat and relatively light shedding.Russian Blue: Hypoallergenic? (html). Retrieved on 2008-05-06.

User:Dodo bird was quite right, the article cited is a mirror of this wikipedia article, and is not a suitable reference. I am sure that I had read and referenced this rationale long ago, but I can no longer verify it. I find this whole situation strange. I know russian blues, and other cats, and people allergic to cats, and they are no less allergic to russian blues (pedigree or not) than to any other cat, and yet some people are determined that russian blues are hypoallergenic? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)