Talk:Rush Limbaugh/Archive 7

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
← Archive 6 |
Archive 7
| Archive 8 →


Contents

Cyborg category

After a bit of poking around the Category:Cyborgs page, I noticed that Michael Chorost was listed because he has a cochlear implant. Since Limbaugh also has one, I thought it would be logical to add him to this category as well. This was promptly reverted, apparently viewed as vandalism. Unless somebody can give me a good reason why one person with a cochlear implant belongs in the aforementioned category, and one does not, I'm going to add the category again.65.31.149.61 21:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

  • See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. It's mainly a guide to deletion discussions, but the concept applies to content disputes. Also see WP:POINT and WP:BLP before you get too invested in this pursuit. - Crockspot 01:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Mediation

Ive taken this case to mediate. Ive familiarised myself with the basics. Im curious - Id like to see a quick vote from each of you - are you for or against inclusion and your reasoning in a sentence or two . -Ste|vertigo 08:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

  • For. The incident is notable under the WP:N guideline in that "it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works from sources that are reliable and independent of the subject itself and each other." In addition, “[n]otability is not judged by Wikipedia editors directly;” rather, notability is conferred by the decision of multiple editors of reputable publications to print the information and by Rush's decision to discuss the incident repeatedly on his radio program. Kpedsea 00:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Against Just because people are talking about and making jokes about something does not make it notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia. People still make jokes about cigars and Clinton but there is no mention of it in his encyclopedia article. We need to approach writing this article in a clinical, non-tabloid way.--PTR 18:34, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

What exactly are we mediating? You say "for or against inclusion" but you don't say inclusion of what. There are several issues under discussion on this page. --MiguelMunoz 05:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rush Limbaugh, see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rush Limbaugh detained on return from Dominican Republic --Dual Freq 06:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I would agree with including it, as its been noted in the media. Dont make it a big section that repeats all the various speculations though. -Ste|vertigo 23:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
It is a non-story and not notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia. Press coverage initially focused on the drug abuse angle expecting that Limbaugh would be sanctioned due to his previous drug issues. However, no charges were filed and the story died. The only reason for including it has been an attempt to drum up some illicit, tabloid style sex tourism rumors. There wasn't much support of a merger in the AfD. --Dual Freq 02:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
The common exclusionist argument is moreoften than not based on a preconcieved or biased notion of what an encyclopedia is. Wikipedia is much more than a typical encyclopedia. -Ste|vertigo 07:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Much more than a typical encyclopedia, but I thought it was much better than the Weekly World News. There is nothing in that story worth repeating except to imply some sort of unreferenced, unsourced sexual misconduct angle. The only reason it made the press in the first place was the potential for further drug abuse charges. No charges were filed and noteworthiness of the incident was gone. Basically, the story was "Limbaugh got busted with drugs, hopefully he'll be arrested", then when he wasn't, the story became "oops, never mind." The AfD indicates that the community doesn't support a merger of the material. --Dual Freq 22:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
The separate article was created by an editor after the same information was repeatedly deleted here. The separate article was then proposed for deletion as a POV fork, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rush Limbaugh detained on return from Dominican Republic, not because the information was not "notable". (All of this occurred at roughly the same time the Request for Mediation was pending). Deletion of the separate article as a POV fork thus cannot fairly be claimed to have addressed the propriety of including the information here. The Mediation Committee accepted the case and the neutral Mediator designated by the Committee, Ste|vertigo, recommends inclusion. I propose to return the information to the article as framed in the RfM, see Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rush Limbaugh. Kpedsea 05:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
That's not quite what happened in this case. A user was trying to make a point and created a stub article that was deleted and not supported for merger by a fairly wide margin. Comments included: "Non-story. "Celebrity uses Viagra." Really? That must be so uncommon.", "I don't think Wikipedia needs it at all, but it certainly doesn't merit a separate article of its own." "Forking out a news article that does not belong in the encyclopaedia is not the way to solve a content dispute over a biographical article." I'd say the AfD is defiantly pertinent. --Dual Freq 05:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Editor Dual Freq was originally listed as an “Involved party” in the RfM but withdrew, writing (as shown on the history page): “don't drag me in to this, I removed the item because it was placed in improper chronology. I only engaged the talk page once a separate article was created.” Two other editors involved in the RfM, who originally opposed inclusion, have also withdrawn. The neutral Mediator supports inclusion. I think it is time to move forward. Kpedsea 16:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I also wanted to be removed from mediation because I don't like going around in circles with a bunch of single purpose accounts. I will be removing the non-notable material per the community consensus not to merge on the AfD. --Dual Freq 16:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
There has already been lengthy 5000+ word discussion on this matter, it is clearly not worth a single word in an encyclopedia. A point was made creating the article, the article was deleted, there is no reason to dump this here. --Dual Freq 16:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
As the one who nominated that article for deletion, I think that interpreting the results of that AfD as "this material doesn't belong in Wikipedia at all" is a false interpretation of those events. The only correct interpretation of that process was that particular article, at that particular time, was judged by some group of editors to be unsuitable for a stand-alone article. The issue of including the material elsewhere and in some other form is a separate one altogether. --ElKevbo 17:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I am for inlcusion, as the media coverage of this issue shows it to satisfy the notability criteria. Also, some of those who support deleting the material have withdrawn from the mediation process. Is there any reason not to include this material now? Lurker oi! 18:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I am not so sure anymore. That said, it did get press coverage, so a small mention might be appropriate, provided it indicates a press rush to judgement and the no charges filed. Certainly its notable as an attempt by the liberal media to smear him. -Stevertigo 00:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Where would you recommend we go from here Stevertigo? I attempted to post the paragraph and it was removed again by an editor who had taken him or herself from the mediation. There is agreement that the paragraph is accurate as a factual matter, the disagreement has been over whether the paragraph is "notable" under the Wikipedia guidelines. I have seen no credible report suggesting that the "liberal media" attempted to smear Rush by reporting the news of his detention, and would not know how to include this information in the absence of such a report. No one has suggested an alternate version of the paragraph. Kpedsea 03:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Please paste the paragraph here. We can maybe chop it down to something agreeable. Im not saying it should go in, Im just saying I want to see exactly what it is, how its worded and what is wrong with it. -Stevertigo 10:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

From Request for mediation/Rush Limbaugh Kpedsea 17:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Issues to be mediated

  • Whether the following paragraph should be added to the Rush Limbaugh article in a new section, "Detention on return from Dominican Republic," located under "Public life," - "2000s" between "Prescription drug addiction" and "Michael J. Fox comments controversy":
Upon returning from the Dominican Republic on a private jet in June 2006, Limbaugh was detained at the Palm Beach International Airport when a bottle containing 29 erectile dysfunction pills was found by U.S. Customs and Border Protection in his baggage, prescribed in the name of the physician treating Limbaugh for drug addiction.[1][2][3][4][5] "I had a great time in the Dominican Republic," Limbaugh later joked on his radio program. "Wish I could tell you about it."[6] Limbaugh was not charged with a crime in the incident. [7]

-- Notes for "Issues to be mediated" --

Yeah, I would say no. Its not saying anything except he was reported to have a lot of enhancement pills. Its interesting, given his history with other pills, but that tidbit doesnt seem to have much going for it except that its embarrassing. -Stevertigo 09:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I would say yes. Any trouble with the law is generally notable in a public figure (unless it is one who is frequently in this position) and it was widely reported. Also, it relates to his other legal problems. Lurker oi! 14:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I would say no per Stevertigo. --PTR 16:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Stevertigo: which of these discordant statements represents your final position in the matter?
  • “I would agree with including it, as its been noted in the media.” -Ste|vertigo 23:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • “I am not so sure anymore. That said, it did get press coverage, so a small mention might be appropriate, provided it indicates a press rush to judgement and the no charges filed.” Stevertigo 00:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • “Please paste the paragraph here. We can maybe chop it down to something agreeable.” -Stevertigo 10:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • “Yeah, I would say no.” -Stevertigo 09:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
It would be more helpful if we were able to know your reasoning process, preferably couched in terms laid out in WP:N, rather than ex cathedra statements mixed with unsourced claims that the wide reporting of the issue by divergent news sources (including Fox News) represented “an attempt by the liberal media to smear” Rush. For reference, I note that Mediation states: “Some would argue, however, that an individual who gives an opinion about the merits or value of a case does not practise true mediation, and that to do so fatally compromises the alleged mediator's neutrality.” Kpedsea 23:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
First of all we don't consider FoxNews to be a citeable news source. "Any trouble with the law is generally notable in a public figure" - any trouble? A speeding ticket? A talk with the police? Detentions at airports are too common to be mentionable, unless it constitutes harassment by the government. The real issue is as I see it is that because Limbaugh maintains the image of a haughty and pompous aristocrat; one who's moral and intellectual prowess cannot be bothered with the gripes of mere factcheckers, truthsayers, and mortals; his political foes (mere mortals) naturally squeak for joy at any related news which contradicts this pious image. It is by consequence of his own doctrine of claimed perfection that his real human imperfections to some appear exaggerated and are thus made fun of. Neither his doctrine of claimed perfection nor the doctrine of those who ridicule his doctrine are relevant here. The issue is that even according to the doctrine of NPOV, there are matters which are simply too insignificant to mention: his erectile dysfunction is one case of such pointed insignificance. If he were actually arrested and charged, then the issue would have mentionable proportions. But lacking such, I believe this small matter is closed. -Stevertigo 06:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree that this is an insignificant event and does not merit inclusion in this article, but what wikipedia policy excludes FoxNews channel as a citeable, reliable news source? We're citing Media Matters for America and Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting in this article, if alleged bias is the reason FNC can't be used then what of those two? --Dual Freq 14:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't think any reasonable person would compare MM and FAIR with FoxNews. Its not as if conservative views are somehow just as legitimate as factual views and therefore must be represented in balance. -Stevertigo 08:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Agree. Joke fodder it may be but significant in the context of an encyclopedia it is not. --PTR 13:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

225px|right|thumb|The true Rush behind the radio waves???right|225px|thumb|Packaging for the Rush Limbaugh action figure playset (radio mic in hand included!) (the true Rush behind the radiowaves???)

Please read WP:BLP.
Please read WP:BLP.

Include it of course! It is very interesting information for several reasons. One of which is that many people of lesser note would have likely been charged with drug smuggling! These battles over blocking inclusions of things are totally ridiculous! It really hurts this encyclopedia when you have blocks of editor/fans on several pages, (both american democrat and republican personalities/celebrities/politicians) with them blocking inclusions of referenced material and wasting everybodys time in these disputes. I'm currently battling trying to get some positive comments included to the ann coulter article, (whom I'm a fan of, and I must be honest Rush I think is a total slime bag/Jabba the Hutt/non-human alien wormlike creature) anyways...Its not the fact that revolutionized the world sure this little tidbit, it really doesnt somehow tarnish his image much, but blocking it and endless haggling over including it or not is ridiculous, you've even got a whole section titled "cigar afficianado"-I mean come on! (by the way that sounds a bit of a POV/fan clubbish title, how about "cigar afficiando/cigar addiction"...or else just "cigar use") If it was reported on it can be included if an editor wishes to. If you can mention he likes cigars then you can mention he was caught with a bunch of viagras, plus its interesting in that many people don't even realize you could get in trouble for having some viagras when you fly into the states! Too many wikipedia articles are simply far too short, one of the great things about wikipedia is that we dont have the limitations inherent in book format such as the need for compressed articles. Sure this incident doesnt need a couple pages, but a few sentences or a paragraph is fully legitimate if an editor so wishes to include it. In all honesty I am less and less inclined to use wikipedia as a source on living biographies anymore, especially of modern day political personalities whether liberal or conservative, as the articles are simply whittled down far too much by editing lobbys and anything at all in the slightest bit compromising on a personality tends to be washed clean unless there is simply no way to. Wikipedia is becoming less and less a good source for people like Rush, and I would not recommend this article as a good source on Rush, it needs a bunch more from both sides, pro-Rush editors and anti-Rush editors. Currently I would advise people to head to both strong pro-Rush web sites and strong anti-Rush websites, and some neutral ones to try and piece together a picture of him, I suppose wikipedia still has a place as a supplemental source, but this article isnt of the quality for a primary source currentlyCrystalizedAngels 21:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Please read Primary source and Wikipedia:No original research. Wikipedia is not a primary source. Please do not use fair use images in ways that are inconsistent with their fair use rationale. Fair use images can't be used on user pages or talk pages. --Dual Freq 22:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Reverted Nobel Prize information

I have reverted the reintroduction of the Nobel Prize information. Rush Limbaugh's nomination came "unsolicited" (by the nom's own admission) and from a party that does not even fit the criteria for potentially eligible nominators. All I can find to support it are reprints of the press release, summaries of the press release, brief secondary mentions, and blogosphere chatter. Please show me a reliable source on the matter. Claiming Al Gore's nomination is on his page is just not relevent. Al Gore's nomination had primary coverage from the mainstream media. Al Gore's nomination was explicitly legit since Norway's legislators have the privelege to nominate candidates for the prize, according to the AP, AFP and other reliable sources. Trying to justify the inclusion of Rush's nom because Al's is included is based on a false comparison. Vassyana 17:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we had this discussion before. Please review previous discussion above. We don't know that Al Gore's nomination is valid or not. We don't know if Al Gore's nomination was solicited or not. We don't know if the nominators of Al Gore are eligible or not. Yes, it is relevant whether the Nobel nomination is mentioned on Al Gore's page. It is Wikipedia and we need to maintain consistency. Please provide me a reliable source that Al Gore's nomination is valid. That is the NPOV manner to handle the situation. Have a good day.--Getaway 17:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
If there are questions about whether or not Al Gore's nomination was valid, those should be addressed on the talk page for Al Gore's article. It has absolutely nothing to do with this article. --Onorem 17:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Jackryan 17:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Hm. Seems a stretch. -Stevertigo 11:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Anyone want to discuss this rather than revert/revert?--PTR 18:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Getaway- when information is added to a wikipedia article, the burden of proof is on those who add the information to verify it in accurate. Therefore, if you are to re-add the information, please do not do so without confirming the eligibility of the Landmark Foundation to nominate for the Nobel Peace Prize. And I agree with the statements above, if you have a problem with another article, please go there. Lurker oi! 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The info listed is accurate. It says they issued a press release saying etc. They did issue one. There has been much discussion on whether or not nominations belong in the bios with no consensus being reached. I think we should err on the side of inclusion until we have discussed and come to consensus. This is and will be a current event until the Nobel Prize is awarded. If people want information about it they should be able to find out the facts. It will probably be non-notable after the prize is awarded (to someone else of course). --PTR 18:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The version of the Nobel information added today is a re-insertion of the version agreed to in the previous talk page discussion, where no concensus was reached. The wording has been vetted by several other Wikipedians (once again, please review previous discussion) and the information was found to be as accurate as Wikipedians we could be. Also, it is clear that many, many Wikipedians believe that Al Gore's nomination should be mentioned and your decision to delete the information negates the opinions of those Wikipedians, which is not in line with principles and concepts of Wikipedia to reach consensus and mutual agreement. You can't just decide that the opinion of other Wikipedians is not important.--Getaway 18:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Once again, since a Nobel Prize nomination is meaningless unless given by a qualified group or individual, please show that the Landmark Foundation are elligible to nominate, or the section will be removed. Oh, and your statement The version of the Nobel information added today is a re-insertion of the version agreed to in the previous talk page discussion, where no concensus was reached is oxymoronic. If no consensus was reached, how can there be "a version agreed to"? Lurker oi! 18:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
This article seems to suggest the nomination is invalid http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070222.wnobel0222/BNStory/International/home. Therefore, I am going to have to insist on the material being justified by evidence that the foundation is actually eligible to nominate. If we allow ineligible nominations to be included, literally anyone could be nominated for a nobel prize by anyone else, and get it mentioned in a Wikipedia article. Lurker oi! 18:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
For some reason, the article is subscribers-only, unless accessed via Google News here: http://news.google.com/news?q=%22rush%20limbaugh%22%20nobel%20prize&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn Lurker oi! 18:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
That's good information. Don't you think if someone is coming here to find out if Rush Limbaugh had been nominated it would be good to have the information included? I think this is one of those current events people want to look up and in 6 months it won't be of interest or notable anymore. --PTR 19:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Again, Gore's nomination has been covered as the primary subject of many articles in reliable sources. Gore's nomination is explicitly noted as coming from eligible nominators in reliable sources. Limbaugh's nom has only received brief secondary mentions and comes unsolicited against Nobel rules from a party that does not fit the potential eligible parties list provided by the Nobel Committee. So, if we will include Limbaugh's nom because Gore's is included please show that it was the primary subject of multiple articles in multiple reliable sources including statements that the nom is valid. Vassyana 05:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Contrary to edit claims by Cylonhunter, Getaway and others in their edit summaries, the removed section does not cite appropriate resources. One source is a press release, which is not a reliable source. The other says nothing about Limbaugh's nomination and even if it did, vanity claims by Limbaugh would not be a reliable source. See my above comments for more of my take on all this. Vassyana 17:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Gores source is ^ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2007/02/01/AR2007020100377.html isn't that a press release. --Cylonhunter 16:52, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Bad link. I've replaced it, in the Al Gore article, with http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16920923/. And no, that wasn't a press release by an organization that had absolutely no authority to make a nomination ("unsolicited" or otherwise), it was an Associated Press story based on talking to a Norwegian legislator who is one of the limited number of people who can make such a nomination. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Hm. Maybe Limbaugh was nominated by a Bush administration official, in which case that would make it a legitimate nomination? (Sort of). But ala, in the absence of such evidence, it would seem this particular matter would be closed, with any mention of such claimed "nomination" being entirely removable. That said, I have never been a stickler for exclusionism - it may be appropriate to include mention of the nomination, but only provided the appropriate context is given - that his nomination came from an unqualified source, that supporters compared Limbaugh's nomination to Al Gore's, though Gore's was legitimate. -Stevertigo 23:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Due to the secrecy surrounding the nominations talking about them is an inexact science at best anyway.--Cylonhunter 13:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Well then when he actually is nominated to join the pantheon of Nobel laureates, we should certainly make a mention of it. -Stevertigo 10:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
This is exactly why we need to so strictly interpret WP:ATT about reliable sources. Blog chatter, brief side mentions, press releases and regurgitated press releases won't meet the mark. Like Al Gore's nomination, we need primary coverage in a reliable source, preferrably confirming the eligibility of the nominating party. Otherwise we're just engaging in speculation and original research. Vassyana 11:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree if and when the Nobel Committee releases the nominations in approx. fifty years then we should mention nominations.I have listened to his show and within all liklihood this is a joke--Cylonhunter 13:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I am of the opinion that it should at least be mentioned that he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Darin Wagner 13:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


On Nobel Prize nomination

Alright, if reuters does not say that the Nobel Prize committee has acknowledged Limbaughs nomination, could we at least say that "Limbaugh CLAIMS to have been recognized by the committee?" I mean, this issue shouldn't be that hard to resolve, it's not like he's going to win or something....Judgesurreal777 02:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to take this opportunity to announce my intentions to nominate Rush for the next 35 Nobel Peace Prize awards. The nominations not being valid shouldn't have any bearing on the decision to include them... --Onorem 02:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I mean, come on Onorem, he has been going on about it since January, and it is notable at least from the merchandising aspect, which he is certainly capitalizing on. Judgesurreal777 02:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Of course he's capitalizing on it. The stunt wouldn't make sense if they didn't try to capitalize on it. I won't revert you a third time if you add the section to the article again, although I'm guessing others might. I just don't believe the "nomination" is newsworthy. --Onorem 02:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Well how about this: I'll add it taking what we talked about into account, and you can either amend it or we can talk more. :) Judgesurreal777 03:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

It's a joke people. What happens when you disagree with someone? Do you completely lose your sense of humor? He also merchandises Club Gitmo Gear. Get over it!

On Nobel Prize nomination 2

I agree that we should not say that Limbaugh was officially nominated, since it was agreed here that there were no reliable source stating that. Fine.

What I have added is just the facts; Landmark Legal nominated him, as confirmed by Reuters, it has not been officially confirmed, and he is making money off of it. No unreliable sources, just the facts of the case. I'm not saying he's an official nominee, or that the Nobel committee recieved his nomination, just what I have listed. I believe that this text resolves the controversy, and would like to discuss it if there are further objections, as opposed to the revert to infinity and beyond :) Judgesurreal777 05:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

The paragraph added:
In 2007, Limbaugh was nominated by the Landmark Legal Foundation for the Nobel Peace Prize, which Limbaugh claims has been acknowledged having been received by the Norwegian Nobel Institute, though the reference article he cited from Reuters news service does not mention that they had.[8][9][10] Limbaugh has used the occasion to sell various celebratory merchandise related to his nomination.[11]
does not say anything. It says he was nominated, maybe and he's making money off of it. There is nothing new here. We don't know that he was nominated. It's not even a blip in his life. We can't mention every news story he makes money off of and this would only be encyclopedic if it were a real nomination. --PTR 15:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
It says he was nominated by Landmark Legal, and that is something, I don't see prominent conservatives being nominated for Nobel Peace Prizes every day, or...ever. It could become more significent, but for now, this is just a small section that has lots of references. Judgesurreal777 16:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Landmark Legal is run by Rush's fellow broadcaster/station-mate Mark Levin. It's an incestuous nomination, and has no significance whatsoever. - Nunh-huh 16:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
That is a spurious argument; Gore is a leftist, the Nobel prize committee slobbers over his Global Warming warnings, and that isn't called "incestuous". Let's stick with the issue at hand, and not keep reverting. The text is fair and accurate, and I would like to come to some kind of compromise so this article doesn't have a monthly edit war over this issue. Judgesurreal777 17:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
When you nominate the host of the radio show that leads into yours for a Nobel prize, you shouldn't be surprised that no one takes it seriously. It means something, at least in terms of the Nobel prize, when the Nobel prize committee "slobbers" over someone. That's not incestuous: the Prize Committee and Gore have no relationship. Levin and Limbaugh can't say the same. It means nothing, at least in terms of the Nobel prize, when one's co-worker "slobbers" in the same way. If the nomination is mentioned, so should the relationship between Limbaugh, Levin, and Landmark be. - Nunh-huh 18:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
In fact, the part of Gore's article mentioning his nomination specifically says "The secretive Nobel committee never comments on specific nominations, but members often note that anyone can be nominated. In 2006 there were 191 nominations for the prize." There is no evidence that Landmark's nomination counts any more than two Norweigan politicians. As long as the wording remains the same - which is entirely proper - then it should be included, partisanship aside. --Mr. Vernon 01:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The text, as it is constituted now, cites it as the minor issue it is. Why not let it stay, since it is a current issue, and as it develops either he will drop it and so will we, or it will become more of an issue, perhaps a full paragraph with more citations. I would like to have some kind of compromise so the page doesn't have to have this discussion every month. Judgesurreal777 01:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The page needs this discussion every month because Limbaugh's partisans seem intent on depicting Levin's letter to the Nobel committee as something that is in some way important, rather than depicting it as the insignificance which it is. Anyone can be "nominated" by anyone. - Nunh-huh 02:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Please do not pretend to be protecting the article against "partisans", I am extremely accomplished at editing for Neutral Point of View, and you show your own bias by calling those who want to add the text partisan. Partisan to what? The Limbaugh party? Please. I think it's time to have another poll to decide if the information should be added. Yes, there should be a new poll, since the old one was on text asserting he was nominated, whereas mine is accurate and short, and states he claims to have been nominated, not a very big honor I must say. Judgesurreal777 00:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I think we can let your accomplishments speak for themselves. - Nunh-huh 19:02, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
And what exactly does that mean? Judgesurreal777 21:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Just exactly what it says. - Nunh-huh 23:04, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
About time to call in the arbitrators yet again, since not only are you failing at neutrality and compromise, now you are failing at civility. Judgesurreal777 01:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I doubt there's much to arbitrate, as no one but you seems to want the information about the "nomination" in the article. - Nunh-huh 01:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Yet another questionable statement; simply because everyone who wanted to add it has been shouted down, doesn't mean it is unsupported. Judgesurreal777 01:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
There is no evidence that Landmark's nomination counts any more than two Norweigan politicians. No, you don't get it. Only a limited number of people are allowed to make nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize. You're not one of them. I'm not one of them. The two Norwegian legislators are two of the people who are allowed to make nominations. What Landmark Legal did was mail a letter. That is not a nomination; it's sending a letter. And the letter will be thrown away, because no one in that organization has been empowered to make a nomination.
In short, if you want to say that Rush Limbaugh is either stupid enough, or devious enough, to ignore the fact that this is a bogus "nomination", fine, go ahead and put that into the article (presumably after finding a reliable source). But let's not make the mistake of thinking that Landmark Legal has the ability to make a nomination, because it doesn't. Nor do you, nor do I, nor, in all likelihood, does anyone else who has edited this page or the article to date. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
So he's either "stupid" or "devious?" Yeah, you're really being impartial and objective. Darin Wagner 15:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
And correct. That Limbaugh paraded this patently bogus nomination as real proves it. Reality has a well-known liberal bias. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.202.248.81 (talk) 05:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Relax, people. There's really no formal Nobel Prize nomination process, although anyone can write to the Nobel committee with a suggestion; unless this was a serious nomination from a former winner, a national parliament, a high-ranking judge, or the like, it should not be taken too seriously. Lots of people claim to be nominees (such as Heather Mills), but this has no legal standing. However, Limbaugh's mentioning this detail is certainly in keeping with his sense of humor. The fact that he is joking when he makes egotistical-sounding claims is something that is not always apparent to a casual listener; an example of this is columnist William Raspberry, who having lambasted Limbaugh in a column (circa 1992), took up Limbaugh's offer to listen to the show for several weeks, after which he said "he's no Jonathan Swift" but accepted that he does use a lot of dry humor that makes sense only in context. Limbaugh might not be taking this "nomination" too seriously, but boasting about being a "Nobel Prize nominee" is the kind of thing he'd do. ProhibitOnions (T) 07:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Books

From what I remember, he also wrote two book, "The Way Things Ought to Be" and "See, I Told You So". Aren't published books worthy of note? I remember doing book reports on the in middle school. -64.9.55.250 17:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC) Man, I thought I was logged in. -Ich (talk) 17:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Rush Limbaugh#Bibliography, right above the list of 4,000 books written about Limbaugh. --Dual Freq 17:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Media Matters external link

I readded the Media Matters link, which was removed without comment a while ago. As Media Matters reports and quotes Limbaugh and contains commentary it should be included. Arbustoo 20:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

There should be some reference to the fact that Media Matters is far from a neutral source of information. The action tips on their own page indicate a fight against Conservative thought...and nothing to do with monitoring the media.

MM is acceptable per WP:EL. Arbustoo 02:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Still no discussion, though it was removed. Arbustoo 02:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

While media matters is liberal, they just provide the quotes. They have never made any of them up. (69.140.166.42 19:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC))

New Tag

I place it because A) it has no neutrality towards Al Franken, choosing to use his own words against him. B) Misinformation on his draft record, no such classification as 1-Y C) failing to report the Viagra incident, the man was detained, something that is factual despite his embarassment, wiki is not about saving one from ridicule is it? I'm sure more can be said but those are some of the salient issues so far ForrestLane42 13:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)ForrestLane42

A) What is wrong with describing Al Franken with the words he uses to describe himself?
B) There is no longer a 1-Y classification, but there was at the time.
C) I agree that it might be worth adding, but don't think that alone warrants a totally disputed tag. Try discussion here on the talk page instead. --Onorem 13:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok I remove B only if you can or someone can cite your sources. As for A, Franken may be using it, but it seems incredibly out of place, as if it is tongue and cheek for a descriptor of a liberal on a conservative page. Seems unbalanced. As for C)I think that if you are leaving out known details of someone's life, because its embarrassing then you are not being faithful to what a wikipedia is all about. 167.206.60.106 16:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)ForrestLane42

Here's one. - I'll track down more if you don't think that's reliable.
Do you object to referring to Franken as a liberal, or just that "liberal infotainer" is used? I think that was decided on because there was some edit warring going on about how Franken should be described, and the compromise was just to use Franken's own words.
Please consider contributing to the Mediation section above if you want to comment on whether or not the incident belongs in the article. --Onorem 16:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I dont think liberal should be used, need a more PC term like political comedian, or something. The mediation is done as far as I see. Can u source that source on his page, please? thanks

Why was the tag removed?? 167.206.60.106 20:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)ForrestLane42

FAIR, ultra-liberal

Isn't the term "ultra-liberal" POV? Therefore 03:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

non profit funding?

Does anyone know where you can find sources where nonporfits get their funding? I think 204.58.248.32 comment while not neutral was accurate in a sense,"Democrat-funded and Democrat-staffed organization that is" that it not funded by the democrat party, democrats fund this organization according to this website http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Media_Matters_for_America (although, they are probably conservative). Media Matters is hardly fair in coverage or neutral, though--Kolrobie 00:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Why isn't a wikilink to Media Matters for America enough? The article about that organization should describe its funding, purpose, executive leadership, connections to political parties, etc. The group probably comments on dozens of individuals and organizations; do we really want to have content disputes in dozens of articles about what the group is and isn't, as opposed to working for factual and NPOV language in the article that is just about the group itself? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, I think maybe a link with maybe a short sentence explaining the link. --Kolrobie 00:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

barack the magic negro

Would it be appropriate to add a section or reference to Limbaugh's racist song about Barack Obama, "Barack the Magic Negro"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.244.99.154 (talk) 06:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Not really, figuring that it wasn't Limbaugh that came up with the "Barack the Magic Negro" concept in the first place.65.40.171.85 16:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, considering that Limbaugh is the one who popularized this racist attack on Barack Obama, and considering that it is a good example of how Limbaugh operates to ridicule and belittle those he disagrees with, and incites his followers to do the same. But, practically speaking, it is not worth adding such a section as this page is heavily patrolled by Limbaugh flacks who ensure it sanitizes his reputation of any of his more objectionable and un-American antics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.191.250.81 (talk) 02:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC).
Absolutely, it's made news and headlines and adds to the notability of the subject. I'm surprised this article does not have any type of Controversy/Criticism section, like the Michael Moore article does. I hope this is changed soon. Justinm1978 06:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Surprised? Indeed. It is not for lack of trying. There used to be a considerable section of controversy way back when, before the Limbaugh flacks/lackeys started working full-time to censor and keep this page lily-white and free from any of the Goebbels or hate speech references that Limbaugh so readily conjures. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.191.250.81 (talk) 21:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Re the origin of the song, though Limbaugh did not originate the magic negro comparison, this article [1] claims the black owner of the angrily conservative blog www.politicalpartypoop.com created the video, perhaps another example of black [self-hatred http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hate].

During the 1980s he poked fun at "The Reverend Jessee Jackson", so he knows how to make money by poking fun at whichever Negro happens to be in the spotlight. He became a very rich man; I give him credit.HYPERDUNCE 17:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Some people relish his cornball sense of humor and pay him millions of dollars for producing the materials which bring laughter to them.HYPERDUNCE 11:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
And some people just don't have a sense of humor. The Magic Negro song WAS funny! (if you're not a humorless PC drip, that is.)68.36.127.193 10:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Limbaugh on Global Warming

Before we rush off and delete the whole thing. Let's discuss it and work on obtaining some sources for the text. We are supposed to assume good faith. I add some {{fact}} tags and kickoff a discussion. Only if I believe the unsourced text is false do I delete it, otherwise I leave the tag to an editor who cares. patsw 12:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about Global Warming

Let Asia take care of that one, the US is already doing hybrid cars. I need a break on this topic. Back when we debated the Renewable energy topic, there was evidence of global warming occouring thousands of years ago, so it must just be climate change? So Al Gore really looked like a fool a few months ago when he testified on global warming. Just let him and John Malone form a non-for profit organization together, then Al gore would be sorry for calling malone darth vader in the 80's. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.216.141.167 (talk) 14:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

you're full of shit. Villainone 15:18, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Please observe Wikipedia policies on civil discourse, I know Global Warming is a sensitive subject, but still. Judgesurreal777 15:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Minor edits

I'm adding a full explanation what I think are minor edits since this is a quite active page. Under the Prescription Drug Addiction section, I deleted the sentence "The Florida courts ruled for Limbaugh." It seemed to me to be more NPOV to simply state what the court ruled, and let the reader draw his or her own conclusion. Since the next sentence all ready did just that, I felt the sentence was a throwaway that could be deleted. I also moved the term "doctor shopping" into the lead sentence of the paragraph dealing with Limbaugh's surrender/arrest on that charge. The way the paragraph read previously, you had to read three sentences down to learn the charge. It also could have lead to the incorrect impression that Limbaugh turned himself in on a different charge, but ultimately plead not guilty to the doctor shopping charge. Finally, I made a very minor tense agreement change. Xymmax 13:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

why not more about his drug addiction in the first paragraph

that is one of the top 3 things he is know for. Xavier cougat 17:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

That isn't true, he is very famous for many other things, and wikipedia isn't a forum for bashing people we don't like. Judgesurreal777 18:11, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
But lets take the Beatles. The are famous for their music and they way they look. Should not the things that a person is noted for the most be in the first paragraph. When I think of Rush I think of a drug addicted right wing extremist radio talk show host. Do not a large percentage of the people think that way. Very few people take him seriously. He is entertainment like Coulter. Xavier cougat 20:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
If you can come up with some evidence of that, great, include it, otherwise, you will sound like a disgruntled left-winger. Judgesurreal777 20:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
What could we use a poll? I think most people do not take him seriously and most people if asked would say he is a drug addict. I guess the point is that he is a drug addict but why cant we express that in the first paragraph. ? Xavier cougat 20:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Sure, a poll would be fine. What about Bill Clinton? It would take dozens of pages to list his faults, but it doesn't make it appropriate to expand upon it in the opening. Judgesurreal777 20:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Just looked at the BC article. His failings are brought up in the first paragraph. You dont see that in Bush's article. Or Rush's. Xavier cougat 20:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Rush Limbaugh does not have an article because he is a drug addict. That is why it doesn't belong in the lead paragraph. If you want to address the problems with the BC article, do it at the BC article's talk page. --OnoremDil 21:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

BC was brought up as a comparison. The point is BC's is more fair since it is not whitewashed like Rush and Dubya. What should be in the first paragraph for a public figure is what is most noted about them. Rush is known as a drug addict. Xavier cougat 21:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
No. Rush is known as a radio personality. He has also happened to be in the news for other reasons. And what major failings are brought up in the lead section of Clinton's article? I don't really see much.OK. Not sure how I missed a couple comments, but I strongly disagree that Limbaugh's drug issues rival Clinton's impeachment. --OnoremDil 21:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Side note: Is there a reason you are making your first edits and trolling multiple talk pages today? It seems an odd way to start out. --OnoremDil 21:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Trolling? What? Look I know there is a wiki rule about being uncivil. Please read it. I use wiki as a reference but sometimes the articles are not balanced as in the one I am mentioning. Seems like you are 'flaming' Xavier cougat 21:35, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
When someone strikes through their comments, it means that they retract them. (If it was just removed, someone might accuse him of trying to cover up after himself). It's not good form to take another editor to task for comments that they immediately retracted. - Crockspot 21:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I struck that comment as unproductive, but if you want to bring it up anyway...
Yes. All of your edits so far are to talk pages, and it appears that every topic you've started is written in a way to get a reaction out of people. Please take a minute to read all the links that some other editors have left on your talk page. --OnoremDil 21:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
So you think I should change articles without first talking about it? Sure I would change the articles but I do not think it would hold. I need to get consensus. I am hoping people will see my points. Of course you seem full of advice. Should I just edit first and talk about it later. And as far as retracting. I didnt see that. But that is sort of disengnous. I could say things about you and then you react and then I retract. Frankly I think you are being disruptive. I am presenting my editing suggestions on a number of pages to see what others think. These are errors in wiki that have bothered me for a long time. I do not think you are helping. Comment on my proposed changes if you really are being sincere. Tell me like them or do not. Xavier cougat 21:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I do not like them...any of them. That's my sincere feeling. You didn't see the retraction? It happened 23 minutes before you replied... Anyway. I'll bow out since you don't trust my motives, but I do encourage you to listen to the advice of the people that have posted on your talk page. --OnoremDil 21:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Well I think that it should be known that Queen Liz only agreed to pay taxes after a public furor and it should be know she is not british. And Rush is a drug addict. Its in the news. Xavier cougat 21:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. One last post. You are absolutely correct. It should be known. However, it should be known later in the article instead of the lead paragraph because this is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid. --OnoremDil 21:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Wait. Rush is a tabloid. He is a sensationlist. An entertainer. I think this is notable. Xavier cougat 21:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)