Talk:Rus' (region)
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Sorry, but i`v got some objections. As far as i know orthodoxy isn`t that centralised as Roman catholicism, so claims wrere was its center are supriseing me, of course if we`ll not consider Muscovy/Russian Dukes/Tzars claims as a priori rightfull (third Rome). Moreover, Kiev Peechersk Lawra was still after Mongol or Lithuanian conquares significient center of orthodox culture, this or numerous foundations of different orthodox noble familyies are rather not examples of persecution. Next, and unfortunatelly common, mistake is to consider Muscovy/Russia as a only one sucessor of Ruś, while Novograd, neither Zaporizzjan Cossacs, nor Belarussians (Slavic "Lithuanians") weren`t willing to recognize it. Last dubious thing is Polish conquare of any part of Ruś, my advice is to look after for a reason why Galich-Vollhynia was annexed (Vollhynia for real conquared by Lithuania), or rather suceeded by Casimir the Great. Btw. not whole Galizia was part of Kievian Ruś. Mikołajski (talk) 17:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Hello, what I meant was the official residence of the metropolite of the Russian orthodox church (which was the same as Rus orthodox church). It was in Vladimir and later in Moscow and this was recongnized all over the Rus. Secondly, I spoke of how Lithuania or Moscow considered themselves, not how they were percepted by neighbouring groups or entities. Therefore, I didn't write anything wrong, not to speak about the fact that those perceptions varied throughout the time. Maybe you are right in respect of Galicia. However, Poland was mostly percepted as foreign occupant and conqueror in Ukraine and Russia, probably of its attitude or some of its failed campaignes aiming at this. But as in the upper case, I think perceptions shouldn't play a role and I wouldn't protest if you remove it. Finally, the discrimination of the Orthodox Christians was a reality in Lithuania, causing many Knyazs and cities to switch to the Moscow side in 1499, for example. Please read more about it. Voyevoda (talk) 09:14, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Maybe you`r right if it goes for orthodox metropolites, i`m quite ignorant in this matter, so i`ll not dispute it. Can you proove that Poland was considered as a occupant, when and by who exactly? Ukraine wasn`t conquared by no mean, if it goes for Galich, it was inherited by Casimir the Great after Bolesław Jurii Trojdenowicz died. Some boyars however called Tatars, to whom Casimir didn`t wanted to pay tribute, some other allied to Lithuanians and finally they took Vollhynia. Becouse of that deal between Casimir and Bolesław, and then with Lithuanian Grand Dukes, Poland had rights to whole Ukraine, that`s why it was taken. Hard to call it conquare.
- Which campaings you mean by talking some? 1609 was maybe one time when Muscovy was attacked first. Lithuania wasn`t anti-orthodox, some of its Grand Dukes were orthodox, most of highes offices were in hands of orthodoxes (read about it!) and if it goes for swicheing sides it had a different reasons (rather political). Belive me, i saw tons of documents like Zygmunt August privilage about equality of catholics and orthodoxes or Warsaw Confederation of religious peace, hundrets of orthodox nobles, hetmans, voivods, starosts etc. "Persecution" of orthodoxes and some "rusophobia" are just myths.Mikołajski (talk) 03:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Name
The lead starts with Rus but Rus' redirects elsewhere.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
