User talk:Rupert Clayton

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[edit] Did you know

Updated DYK query On 7 October 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kalanchoe pinnata , which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Allen3 talk 17:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Massive Boydell expansion complete

So, my initial expansion of John Boydell and Boydell Shakespeare Gallery is complete. Now, we just need to copy edit and reorganize and I need to bolster up the sources a bit. I'm sure I can add a few more nuggets of information as I go through my notes again, but the bulk of the articles should be in place now (I did a research paper on Boydell a few years ago, so I already had all of the material on hand for the article). The "Shakespeare venture" section needs to be rewritten in John Boydell so that it is a summary of Boydell Shakespeare Gallery and both articles need good leads.

By the way, I hope you don't think I was steam-rolling over your contributions. I only noticed after I had pasted all of my stuff in that you had expanded the article a mere three days before I had. Before that, it was a stub for years. How ironic. Anyway, I tried to incorporate your material as much as possible. All of the facts dovetailed with mine (excellent!), so I usually just added them into other paragraphs I had. I hope this is acceptable.

We should work together and get the articles up to good article status. I'm not sure there is enough scholarship to warrant featured article status, but we can think about it.

By the way, your talk page indicates that you might be rather new to wikipedia but your contribution history doesn't. If you want any advice, I have been editing quite a bit in the last year. I know something about writing articles and the various reviewing processes here, if you have any questions. Nice to meet you! Awadewit | talk 13:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Awadewit, and thanks for all that work on John Boydell. I'm not at all upset that you've added so much stuff to the article. I only happened on it, in the roundabout way of Wikipedia, by following a chain of links from David Roberts (painter) to the previously missing British Institution article, to the Shakespeare Gallery (which was the previous tenant at 52 Pall Mall). And in the way one does on Wikipedia, having found a good source, I couldn't resist adding a few details, with some inline comments.
I'm very happy to work with you to continue to raise the quality of the article (although I'm no scholar of Shakespeare, art history, or 18th-century London). And I'll be happy to give it a copy edit (at least there's a field in which I do have professional experience.)
You're right to detect that I've been a Wikipedia user/editor for quite a while, but that I'm not very strongly connected with any particular collaborative effort out there. But that does remind me that it's time to remove that Welcome banner from my talk page. More later... Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
That was a very bright banner. :) A copy editor! Wonderful! You can refine my horrendous prose. I just really threw it up there for starters. You'll see how rough it is when you get into it. Awadewit | talk 01:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure it is just a coincidence that Timothy Clayton and you share a name? :) Awadewit | talk 05:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Who he? You talkin bout my bro Attitude (rapper)? If so, then no :) Rupert Clayton (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Lol. I was talking about (same?) Timothy Clayton who wrote the DNB entry on Boydell. :) Awadewit | talk 21:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Why do I even try to be helpful? Awadewit | talk 07:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't realise that the DYK process was so complex, but I'm glad your prodding paid off and it's nice to see Boydell finally get his 4-6 hours of 21st-century fame. Congratulations! Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Low profile

I inadvertently accredited Awadewit as the sole provider of the enormous pleasure that the John Boydell and Boydell Shakespeare Gallery articles gave me. Being an honest soul, she put me right. Instead, I'd like to give you this token of my appreciation not only for the Bowden articles but for the huge contribution you have made in the background to the Lakes articles. --ROGER DAVIES talk 17:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The Invisible Barnstar
message For your hard work on two lovely articles—John Boydell and Boydell Shakespeare Gallery—and for your enormous behind-the-scenes contributions to many others, please accept this barnstar. --ROGER DAVIES talk 17:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Roger, for the honour, which I'm glad but a little embarrassed to receive. Even though the English spellings are probably my responsibility, most of the Boydell material is indeed down to Awadewit. I'm going to see if I can pull my weight on this over the coming days. Rupert Clayton (talk) 22:26, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query Did you know? was updated. On 26 November 2007, facts from the articles John Boydell, and Boydell Shakespeare Gallery, which you recently nominated, were featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--WjBscribe 11:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help testing Slideshow template

{{helpme}}

I am looking for Wikipedia users to help test browser compatibility for a new template that I'm proposing incorporating into Wikipedia (it's based on a template already operating on the French Wikipedia). You can view background and report your results at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Browser_tests.

Also, I'd be grateful for input from anyone with knowledge of <div>s or JavaScript, who can help analyze what's happening with this template in IE7 (link as above). Thanks! Rupert Clayton (talk) 20:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

You need specialized help for this, I would suggest posting this request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates or maybe go to one of the project participants directly for help. I hope this helps! --12 Noon 23:03, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, 12 Noon, I have requested assistance at WikiProject Templates. Rupert Clayton 00:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ping_talk Template:Slideshow

FYI // FrankB 19:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping back... I can work the HTML. Trouble is I've no Javascript skills at all... all I know is it looks a lot like C/C++ which I used to know really well. Sigh...
1. Left you a note on the talk... but lied... I got sidetracked here... Maquis_du_Vercors. Still needs TLC, and I'm not getting the slideshow, (now that I think of it, didn't earlier either... the javascript issue I suspect, natch). I "sense" you may get around in French... since you translated and found that template. Take a look then at the French articles (other is Vercors Plateau, or my searching really sucks! [It does, but that's another issue for another day <g>]) and maybe do a little TLC expansion and fixups. Leave the graphics alone for the moment at page top on the first. If I'm right, the stack of former pics will align in their current column, and the Slideshow will collapse into one panel. Anyhow... that's a test bed, and a small and remote enough article from heavy traffic we can get away with it for a few days.
Thanks for your continued interest and for setting up the [[Maquis du Vercors] testbed. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the template won't work for users of the English Wikipedia until the two required functions are added to Common.js. It may be possible to test the functions by adding them to your own Monobook.js, but that's just a guess and it's something I'll have to read up on.
Err... I guess I meant Special:Mypage/monobook.css, and I'm not sure that will work... Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Err... Special:Mypage/monobook.js seems to be the place. Will test this now. Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
OK. I added the functions to my Monobook.js. You can see them at User:Rupert_Clayton/monobook.js. However, they're designed to automate the divs in the template as originally copied from the French version. This means that the only way to get the slideshow to operate as a table would be to rework the functions to interact with the table-style version you have written. I know that I'm not competent to do that, and you say that you don't have JS skills. Therefore, reluctantly, I'm going to revert Template:Slideshow to the version that uses divs, in the hopes that (1) users can get it to work for the moment by adding the functions to their monobook.js, and that (2) someone will eventually help us with the IE7 behavior. I will place your table-based version at User:Rupert Clayton/slideshow template (table format), so it's easy for us to refer to or recover from if needed. Rupert Clayton (talk) 18:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm surprised, however, that you can't see the slideshow working on the page fr:Pétra. Because it's in the French Wikipedia, it uses a different Common.js that does include the two functions needed. Are you saying that when you look at fr:Pétra each of the slideshows appears just as a vertical table of images? If so, then my guess is that Javascript is turned off in your browser. Let me know what you see and I can try to troubleshoot. Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
2. If you can tell me how to load the javascript, do so with alacrity on me talk! Thanks // FrankB 04:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
See Monobook.js Special:Mypage/monobook.css Special:Mypage/monobook.js speculation above.
3. Consider yourself called on the carpet publically... amidst praise, tho! LOL (Maybe this will jump start discussion. <crossing fingers>) Too bad a .css change is needed! // FrankB 04:53, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assumptions and reality

My cynical assumption about the lack of response was that VPP is mostly a place for people to propose ideas so that they can be quietly ignored. There doesn't seem to be a defined process for implementing ideas even when there's consensus. But maybe that's too harsh. Anyhow I'm determined to get the template considered, and accepted unless there's strong reasoned opposition. To get there probably will mean fixing the unpleasant display in IE7, which is tough but fair. Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Cynicism??? Nawh... over optimism, with perhaps a mild ignorance of the ebb and flow of hidden rhythms inside the community...
On the above, suspect the advice I was given by CBDunkerson long ago about introduction of templates is best... go forth and hang at will. If the community likes, it will stick. If it is found offensive, or by some at least, you'll hear about it. I suggest you ask his advice as well, btw. In addition try asking at [Wikipedia talks: Templates, & Templates for discussion], [category talk:Wikipedia templates]. In short, as next below, anywhere and everywhere techies hang and congregate. Especially, the Pump at Mediawiki!!! If one can convince them it's a sitewide wise thing, then the common.css issue becomes automatically solved/resolved.

Unfortunately, in this case, with the Java script change needed, you obviously need a larger audience. Getting a well known technically savvy co-sponser (to the community) for the proposal would be my earliest goal... Submit asking the steps and places needed for a js add to the default page be asked both VPT and the main VP, with a link to the discussion. Blunt request for help and co-sponsers of the idea on the WP:VPT conference as well.
     Perhaps you can locate and cite other wiki's [you gave discussions on the commons, but iirc, did not affirm that they adopted or did not... which would change the presentation.
     Also, suggest visiting the other nine "en.sisters" and posting a link on their pump equivalent (some names vary) to the discussion on our VP. (If you want links, the top of my user pages have backlinks to those where I have an account). Me, I'd make up a boilerplate "request for comment", (another possible path! Do up an RFC!) and paste it in where ever it seems useful. Another "proselytizing measure"... ask on language/country wikiprojects pages whether their members know whether the feature has been adopted in the Spanish, the Dutch, the Polish... wiki's, and could they please comment on the pump section if so...
In short, you be involved in "high politics and misdemeanors" (sic, <BSEG>)... so you need to spend time since you want a community standard to be changed... the common.css, iirc. Lastly, there is some facility for announcements on either the village signpost, or on the main help page... don't recall what it's called, but posting a brief notice there is another good way to attract attention. (The measure I'm thinking of has a seven to ten day automatic "expiration" window... you'll know you found it by that. Ask user:Quiddity, too... he's real helpful and follows all the main standards pages and main page "mixes". Tell him I said hello! A consideration... wait until mid-January... this time of year all the acedemically involved editors are heavily involved in finals and end of terms and pending vacations... that at least, gives you a month to plan your "political campaign" <G>. This group, imho and experience, is about 75% or more of regular contributors herein on the project... a large factor, in other words! Even those not chained to acedemia are distracted by the holiday season now-abouts... in short your cynicism is unwarranted as these are likely large factors!
On the table change over (i.e. your note, my talk), NBD. No harm, no foul. If it won't work with the script you suggest... but that may mean the script should be changed to accept either... something I can technically imagine, but not being a script-hound, can't guarantee. In any event, I made a few other "flexibility changes", iirc. If you just re-massage the table statements:
<tr>, </tr>, <td>, </td> imbedded in comments,
<table>, </table> replaced by keyword div and 
I'd just comment the table keywords out inside the same
and add a header comment that the table doesn't work with the proposed js.

... saves someone else some time down the road, or someone who knows how to
make THAT method work, can then pee in it and generalize the 'js' for same.
... that will keep those and notify others of the technical "issue" between tables and divs.
Think Team work, and let others help! This may be a couple months battle... just don't get discouraged! By all means, consider this "early days". I'll do what I can to help, but a push in mid-January will find me in a better way scheduling-wise too! If you delay the full court press until then, I can split up the message dropping and such and ease the tedium.

Best wishes! // FrankB 16:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French js in css

re: (from above) I'm surprised, however, that you can't see the slideshow working on the page fr:Pétra. Because it's in the French Wikipedia, it uses a different Common.js that does include the two functions needed. Are you saying that when you look at fr:Pétra each of the slideshows appears just as a vertical table of images? If so, then my guess is that Javascript is turned off in your browser. Let me know what you see and I can try to troubleshoot. Rupert Clayton (talk) 16:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
No evidence of any slideshow seen by me in examining all images on that page more than once... as I suggested on the pump, suspect it has something to do with browser language settings. I didn't look in edit mode, but a caption would be helpful to know which is the one/ones that are slideshowing! If the commons has adopted it, would be the best example! We all read English! // FrankB 16:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boydell Shakespeare Gallery

What do you think about taking Boydell Shakespeare Gallery to peer review and FAC? I think we may actually have enough sources to do FA. Awadewit | talk 02:21, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea, though the work is almost all yours. I did want to try to work in more about the building's architecture. It appears to have been one of George Dance the Younger's more notable works, and was the first building to use the Ammonite Order of column capitals. There's quite a bit on this in the Building of London source. However, I can't imagine I'll get a chance to put much time into it before January, as I have a job interview, and there's also that holiday thing going on. Do you want to go for peer review now or wait till January? Rupert Clayton (talk) 17:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, we should definitely wait until you add that material. I'm so glad you found it! I'll just keep polishing the article until then. Good luck with the interview! Awadewit | talk 18:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd be happy to work on it, yes, but tomorrow I'm off to Amsterdam for the opening of the Millais exhibition at the VG museum there and will probably be wiki-incomunicado until next week. I have some literature on Bydell at home though, so I might get a little bit of time tonight. Best wishes. The article looks very impressive at the moment. Paul B (talk) 17:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 3 February 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article George Nicol, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Daniel Case (talk) 02:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Boydell Shakespeare Gallery

I think that Boydell Shakespeare Gallery is just about ready for FAC. I have added some material from the catalogue and slightly reorganized the article. I am going to copy edit it some more. Let me know what you think. Awadewit (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Boydell Shakespeare Gallery

First of all, I will like to thank you for your congratulations. I was really surprised of receiving your message. As well, I will like to congratulate you, as I notice you are one of the main contributors of the article. In any case, I decided to translate the Boydell Shakespeare Gallery article, because it is well written, the prose flows smoothly, and it is very interesting. I am a student of architecture and art, and it served me as an important source of knowledge of 18th century British art history related to Shakespeare. Additionally, in Spanish there are few book references about the gallery and its history, therefore, I belief that through Wikipedia in Spanish people will be able to learn more about this topic. At this time, I am trying to improve the quality of the articles related to art, literature, and architecture in Spanish. Thank you again, and I hope you continue contributing to Wikipedia. I hope to hear from you in the future.--Taty2007 (talk) 00:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)