Talk:Running the gauntlet

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[edit] Spelling

Not only have I (double-)checked my facts, but The Columbia Guide to Standard American English (1993) apparently has as well. See http://www.bartleby.com/68/8/2708.html . However, I have no intention of getting into an edit war over a single letter. You win, have the article anyway you like. ➥the Epopt 12:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

The word gauntlet is a corruption of a foreign word, borrowed into English several centuries ago, and appears in a whole number of different spellings, as such a word is liable to. The OED lists, alongside ga(u)ntlet, the variants gantloop, gauntlope, and gant(e)lope. Whether one form should be preferred over another, so as, for instance, to distinguish the punishment from the glove, may be debatable, but the form gantlet cannot be declared to be unequivocally correct and the others wrong.--Rallette 11:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

Move the article to gauntlet (disambiguation) or running the gauntlet as "fustuarium" is not a well-known word.

Explain "running the gauntlet" in its well-known (non-fatal) variations. Emphasize the distinction between the form of execution and the punishment which gives the person a chance of living.

Emphasize also the games or hazing rituals which are not intended to cause severe injuries. Uncle Ed 16:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sources; article refactoring

It seems like this article violates the principle of least astonishment, in that's it's really about the phrase "running the gauntlet", not "fustuarium". Also, the references currently given are less than adequate for the current content:

  • The Corpun (World Corporal Punishment Research) link isn't very specific. The site itself seems to be more of a link collection than an actual reference. I had to hunt through the page provided, only to find a couple of relatively modern "running the gauntlet" examples. The site search engine turned up no hits of "fustuarium", and "gauntlet" and "running the gauntlet" mostly turned up the same examples and a single useful but terse mention buried in Gunplot.net's "Naval Customs, Traditions, and Phrases".
  • The Spanish "Prizes and punishments" link has the only reference to "fustuarium" in any of the sources, but it appears to be a personal website. I'm not comfortable enough with Spanish to hunt for its sources readily. The relevant content comes from its "Castigos" ("Punishment") section. Here's my rough translation:
    Legion discipline was severe, but not as severe as generally thought. Capital punishment was applied infrequently and only in extremely grave cases, like abandoning of post or desertion. The usual way to execute the condemned was the fustuarium: the criminal was struck with stakes until killed by his fellow soldiers, whom he put in danger by his conduct. If a whole unit deserted or rebelled, rather than executing all its members, "decimation" was applied — one in ten men were chosen by lot to undergo [capital] punishment. The rest were punished by being forced to live outside the camp and subsist on barley until being pardoned. These serious punishments were rare. More commonly, offenders were given blows from twigs, posted to additional guard duty, assigned unpleasant tasks like latrine service, etc. Other punishments included reduction in rank and dishonorable discharge of the legion.

I agree with Uncle Ed above that this article should be moved to Running the gauntlet. At the same time, it should either be refactored so that this phrase leads the article, and the "fustuarium" material be turned into an origin section — assuming we can find references to back this up — or completely removed and transferred to a new fustuarium article (with appropriate edit-history credit on its talk page), since most of the edits here seem to have been about "running the gaunlet" material. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jogues

The Jesuit Isaac Jogues has written that he was subject to this treatment while a prisoner of the Iroquois in 1641. He described the ordeal in a letter that appears in the book "The Jesuit Martyrs of North America" (c 1925, The Universal Knowledge Foundation, p 163).

He writes that "Before arriving (at the Iroquois Village) we met the young men of the country, in a line armed with sticks..." and that he and his fellow Frenchmen were made to walk slowly past them "for the sake of giving time to anyone who struck us."

Can't quite see how to fit this in to the article in it's present form without restructuring it which I am not ambitious enough to do. Editdroid 02:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not an execution method

I've removed this from category "execution methods." While death often resulted from running the gauntlet, it was not the principal goal in the vast majority of cases, and many people survived it. In that sense it is distinguishable from execution methods like hanging, where the sentence specified that the victim be hanged until dead, and the victim would be hanged again if he survived the first attempt. Pirate Dan 21:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Native American Usage

I just read that the gauntlet was a ceremony that was often misunderstood as a form of torture, but was seen as a way for the captives to leave their European society and become a tribal member per Dyar, Jennifer. (2003) "Fatal Attraction: The White Obsession with Indianness." The Historian. June 2003. Vol 65 Issue 4 pages 817–836 on page 823. Any quibbles? Best, Smmurphy(Talk) 08:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some sources claim it could also take the form of stoning.

removed: "Some sources claim it could also take the form of stoning. "

as it: is weaselly (some sources claim)/disparages the 'source' by using the POV word 'claim'/etc.

I have doubt about this claim without sources as well, I have not known of any other connection between death by stoning and the phrase "running the gauntlet"...

We need a source for this if it exists, before we include the phrase. User:Pedant (talk) 20:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origin

I think the opening needs some explication of the origin of the phrase. User:Pedant (talk) 20:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Running the gauntlet

You know running the gauntlet sounds quite boring. just running and running around so stupid/ dumb thing. Oh also before i forget watch the Bob and Paul show on youtube!

Bob Bob —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.214.189.176 (talk) 20:15, 27 April 2008 (UTC)