Talk:Rugby union in South Africa

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[edit] Opening Paragraph

Can we please chage the opening stanza? Lets try to go 4 sentances without using the words 'Apartheid', 'Afrikaner' or 'Race'. Why are foreigners so quick to dissect my country? (Travsuth 01:27, 27 September 2007 (UTC))

Because nobody else is doing it.GordyB 10:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

"English speaking white South Africans ... often opt to represent England rather than South Africa"

I strongly feel this statement should go. It reads as if most English South Africans do just that, when in reality there've been relatively few. Feel free to list all the examples (including those who've chosen Australia, France etc), but the statement as it reads now doesn't accurately represent matters. Greenman 00:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Most no but a significant number. Of the present England elite squad both Stuart Abbott and Mike Catt were born in South Africa. They are two out of only four elite players not born in England (Perry Freshwater and van Gisbergen being New Zealand born).
If you look down the corresponding list of Springbok current players there aren't very many anglo names, perhaps one or two of them are white English speakers despite Afrikaaner names but I wouldn't think more than that. Percy Montgomery is Namibian by birth in any case.GordyB 12:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, when Montgomery was born, his home town of Walvis Bay was part of South Africa. It was only turned over to Namibia in 1994. — Dale Arnett 04:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Stating two examples of people born in South Africa (who both had English parents, one of whom was playing in England well before South Africa was back in international rugby), and moving from there to the claim that English-speaking South Africans often opt to represent England is quite a jump...Greenman 12:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
English speaking South Africans often do have English parents and if they did not at least have an English grandparent they wouldn't be eligible. That's a fairly circular argument. How about we substitute the sentence for a paragraph on South Africans playing for 'foreign' teams, there's quite a few.GordyB 12:52, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
OK! Beats continuing our discussion along the lines of whether English-speaking South Africans often have English parents/grandparents :) Greenman 21:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bastion of Afrikanerdom? Opt to represent other countries?

"In the past rugby union was considered a bastion of Afrikanerdom; the sport is also popular with English-speaking white South Africans but they sometimes opt to represent other countries (examples include Stuart Abbott and Mike Catt for England and Clyde Rathbone for Australia)."

  • "rugby union was considered a bastion of Afrikanerdom" I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean. Maybe a citation will help.
  • "English-speaking white South Africans ... sometimes opt to represent other countries" Utter nonsense. Stuart Abbott and Mike Catt both have English mothers and Clyde Rathbone's grandmother is Australian. Not one of them is your typical English-speaking white South African and not one of their situations is typical. Maybe we should add "Afrikaans-speaking players sometimes opt to play for France" because Pieter de Villiers plays for France.

I am removing that sentence. If someone wants to put it back they should give motivation.--Siener 21:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Err, the motivation is that "rugby union was considered a bastion of Afrikaanerdom" by a lot of people.GordyB 22:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Including the new South African government http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/sports/sportsa.htm.GordyB 22:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Leave the talk about South African Rugby to the South Africans ay Gordy. I am an English Saffa and my family has only ever played Rugby. (Travsuth 01:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC))
If I had left it for South Africans then this article would not exist, nor would Sport in South Africa nor would the article on the national page be more than a mere stub. So if you don't like foreigners writing articles on South Africa then put your money where you mouth is.
In addition, nobody ever said that English South Africans don't play rugby.GordyB 10:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South African Born Players Section

I changed this around a bit, also made it a subsection because it was getting quite large.

Also deleted some Vandalism, the key words are "South African Born Players" and much to New Zealands chargrin, this is exactly what Mehrtens is. I also think, given the fact he now holds a valid South African passport in order to qualify for the Kolpak ruling, i feel his inclusion on the list is more than justified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Travsuth (talk • contribs) 01:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)