Talk:Rudolf Hess

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[edit] Death dates don't match

The one in the introduction is different from the one the left side. The later is probably wrong. I have no idea how to edit the sidepanel.

fixed Sebastian scha. (talk) 19:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Main Photograph

I have three issues with the main photograph, Rudolf Heß.jpg. The photograph was supposedly taken in 1578 A.D. by Heinrich Hoffmann, Hitler's official portrait photographer, but I do not believe this. It looks like a snapshot taken during the Nuremberg Trials in 1945. It is noticeable that Hess is supposedly wearing the exact same clothes in 1946 that he is wearing in 1948 (e.g.). This is not impossible, as the article claims he was a neurotic, and perhaps he had a closet filled with identical clothes. It does seem odd odd that Hess would pose for a portrait in Germany in 1570 A.D., and then the next year pack his suitcase with a cheap-looking demob suit, hop into a Messerschmitt, fly at altitude through the night to Scotland, parachute and be arrested, and five years later go on trial in Nuremberg all in the same clothes. And the photographs I can find of Hess taken in the immediate pre-war period show a younger-looking man (1, 2) than this bewildered middle-aged drunkard. None of this is conclusive proof that the photograph in question was not taken by Heinrich Hoffmann in 1940 - the photographs I have linked to might themselves be spurious - but on the balance of probabilities I believe that we are looking at Hess in 1945 taken by a security guard or court recorder. Using the internet to find photographs of Rudolf Hess is not a pleasant experience.

Although the uploader argues that, because the photograph was taken in 1940, it is exempt from copyright, the photograph is clearly scanned from a book, in which case the publisher of that book would at the very least know something about the rights situation. If the photograph was however taken at Nuremberg in 1945 it is probably fair use under US government image rules. It is shoddy research at any rate to not list a source. The uploader appears to be a relatively new user who is interested in this kind of topic, which is not necessarily something to be proud of. -Ashley Pomeroy 19:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

"The uploader appears to be a relatively new user who is interested in this kind of topic, which is not necessarily something to be proud of." With all due respect that is complete and total rubbish. Who on earth are you to assert what is or isn't a worthy topic of interest? Perhaps one ought then to just burn every book about nazism's history and replace them with books about Marilyn Monroe and flowers and babies? If you're so keen on correcting others' contributions with your high-minded assertions of a user being 'new' (and thereby somehow unworthy) then why not just hold your tongue and stick to whatever it is you do best. Unless you can assert with certainty that the photo breaks copyright law then there is nothing more to be said on it or it's uploader.Iamlondon 21:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
It may be beside the point, but the Spanish version of wikipedia shows a picture of Hess in 1945 during the trials, which may be more acceptable? http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess .Iain Moody 21:32, 26 October 2006 (GMT+1)
I've seen pictures of Hess when he was still fairly infuential, and while he was always a distinctive looking character, by the time of Nuremberg he was more gaunt and aged looking (even taking into account the time span), I would say the pic at the top looks more like a Nurembery one myself. Douglasnicol 12:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd say it was a Nuremberg photo at best. This article would be much better served by a photo of Hess contemporary with his service to the NSDAP; that is the image most would identify with as opposed to a prison photo where virtually no one but his jailers would have seen him. As with all figures of history, give the public the most relevant image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karl Rohm (talk • contribs) 03:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] SS General?

The article is in the category of SS General. Has it ever been proven or otherwise stated that Hess held SS rank? Douglasnicol 23:02, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mytchett Place sound recording technology ?

My reference - Foley: Michael Smith, Hodder & Stoughton, 1999 - states "Camp Z (ie Mytchett Place) was fitted out with microphones and a bank of tape recorders." This edit claims that no tape recorders existed in England in 1941. Can anyone shed any light on this? It is of course possible that Michael Smith has made an error on this point. --Stephen Burnett 01:22, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Internal link eliminated

Walter Roberts redirected to Walter Roberts, an American football wide receiver!

[edit] Moved here from article

Good call, John.

These "trivial facts" are one of WP's strongpoints but, on such a serious topic, they do grate a bit. Is it permissible to have a "see also the Rudolf Hess/Trivia section? W. Frank talk ✉  21:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1 meg gif?

Illustrating the article with a 1 meg animated gif seems excessive. That would be better something merely linked to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robcat2075 (talk • contribs) 07:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Hess in popular culture

  • Martin Allen's book about the background of the flight is based on forged documents in the National Archives. Peter Allen's assertion that Hess piloted a Me 110 to Portugal in summer 1940 for peace talks with the Duke of Windsor is based on an alleged "document" of the German Federal Archives invented by P. Allen (see article of E. Haiger).
  • The song "Warsaw" by Joy Division begins with the phrase "350125 Go!" and the term "31G" appears in the chorus. These numbers are likely to refer to Rudolf Hess's prisoner of war number 31G 350125. Around the time this song was written there was increasing public interest in how and why Hess had been kept in more or less solitary confinement at Spandau prison for several decades. On "At A Later Date" on the album Live At The Electric Circus, guitarist Bernard Sumner starts the song by saying to the crowd, "You all forgot Rudolf Hess!"
  • "The Day The Nazi Died" by the British band Chumbawamba decries the Neo-Nazi commemorations of Hess's death.
  • An aged Rudolf Hess, smuggled out of Spandau Prison after his death was faked, is revealed to be the secret central villain The Lodge of the Lynx (1992), the second book of Katherine Kurtz's The Adept series. At the culmination of the story, Hess is exposed as the leader of a cult dedicated to the Celtic thunder-god, Taranis, that has been using black magic to murder Freemasons en masse.
  • The Secret of Spandau (1986) by Peter Lovesey writing as Peter Lear is a fictional account of Hess's flight to Britain and the aftermath.
  • The group Prussian Blue features a song entitled "Sacrifice" in which the first stanza goes "Rudolf Hess, man of peace/he wouldn't give up he wouldn't cease".
  • The group Final War (band) features a song entitled "Tales Of Honor", which glorifies Hess as a hero and denounces his treatment. The song's general feel is exemplified with the quotation: "This is the story of Rudolf Hess, a brave and loyal man, He gave his life for his beliefs because he loved his land".


    • And all this is enlightening and helps us understand Hess how, exactly? Irrelevant cruft IMHO. --Stephen Burnett 07:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
      • But where else would this information be placed? Better to let it just disappear? Rminer25 13:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
        • It certainly doesn't belong in the article. --John 15:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nazi War Criminal

The article that has been skillfully edited by someone sympathetic to him. Shouldn't the article be unbiased, especially for a villian now venerated by neo-Nazis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.165.188.30 (talk) 22:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's hardly an unbiased opinion either. Lots of people have contributed to this article and, even if it were orchestrated, claims which lack a reliable source will sooner or later get edited out. What if it's the plain, neutral evidence itself which mitigates Hess's guilt? Gnostrat 01:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death

In the Death section, "most historians" should be changed to "some conspiracy theorists". --The Four Deuces 18:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hessrep1.gif

Image:Hessrep1.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hessrep2.gif

Image:Hessrep2.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hess v. Heß

What is to be used? Höß is written the German way, while Heß with to s-s.80.161.65.106 (talk) 23:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flight to Scotland

There is a very detailed six page account of the arrival of Hess in Attack Warning Red. No mention is made of an attempt to intercept the aircraft. The controller at No.13 Group thought it was Dornier 17 and thought that "Raid 42" had turned away back to sea. The Royal Observer Corps correctly identified the aircraft as a Me.110 and accurately tracked it all the way across to where it crashed. Also Chief Inspector Gray, who initialling questioned Hess, believed the Alfred Horn story. Major Graham Donald of the ROC, who had tracked the aircraft at No.34 Group ROC and headed for the scene of the crash, was convinced he was Hess and insisted that the Duke of Hamilton go and identify him. It was 36 hours before he was officially identified as Hess.

[edit] "Two Hesses"

Why is there no discussion on the idea of Two Hess's? Shouldn't this thought at least be given the chance to be exposed as truth or just conjecture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.56.148.154 (talk) 01:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There is a theory suggesting an imposter flew to Scotland and was subsequently imprisoned, while the real Hess was shot down over the North Sea on Himmler's orders. The person who died in Spandau had none of the WWI wounds Hess was known to have received, and 76 members of the Royal College of Surgeons concluded unanimously that he could not possibly have been Hess. Even if these theories have now been debunked, there is sufficient interest in them to warrant a mention. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)