Talk:RPG-7

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article or list is a nominee for the Version 0.7 release of Wikipedia. See the nominations page for more details.
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

Contents

[edit] Cost

I think the public would like to know how much RPG-7 warhaeds cost.

Production cost is a secret. Sales cost is undefined just because this weapon is not free for sale. --jno 14:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I have heard hearsay that claims the RPG-7 launcher costs about $500 to produce, and warheads are just under $100. I can't find proof for that though. --Junky 23:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Airburst

"The timed detonation has been used to create rough proximity airbursts against helicopters once they have passed the preferred 100 m head-on attack zone."

This is a common urban legend and utterly impractical to actually employ as a tactic. Citation needed if it's going to be claimed here. --Junky 12:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I ain't sure about "rough proximity airbursts", but the tactics was in use by dushmans in Afganistan against soviet helos and by chechen criminals agains fereral helos in Chechnya. I can provide you with quotes from local russian press, if needed. I don't know the exact settings for different RPG-7 grenades, but self-terminating (english term?) grenades reported to be quite effective air defense tool, not talking about the direct hit. --jno 14:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Sure, give some sources. --Junky 04:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
For instance, series of articles by Viktor Markovski under the title of "Aviation of Commandos" in "Technics and Munition" (ISSN 1682-7597, subscribtion index 71186) magazine (Russian: журнал "Техника и вооружение" ISSN 1682-7597, статьи "Авиация спецназа", Виктор Марковский) starting with December 2005. Exactly: "Tech&Mun" 3.06, page 17:
Russian:Кроме автоматов и пулеметов душманы били из нескольких РПГ, используя их в качестве зенитного оружия. Гранатометчики стреляли по фронту вертолетов так, что гранаты рвались в воздухе на самоликвидации, выплескивая кумулятивную струю и тучу осколков.
English:Except for assoult rifles and machine guns dushmans beat from several RPG, using them as the antiaircraft weapon. RPG-operators shot on front of helicopters so, that grenades were torn in air to self-liquidations, splashing out a cumulative jet and a cloud of splinters.
I've used an automated translation tool --jno 13:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, but does this article cite a source for this claim? I've seen this claim in print in US newspapers a couple of times, and often repeated by armchair generals, but there is no documented case of an airburst RPG damaging a US aircraft (only direct fire incidents), and I've never been able to find a quote from officers in Afghanistan/Iraq/etc. where they claim to employ this tactic. Granted I haven't browsed Soviet military recortds, but I'd like to see some harder evidence before this claim is repeated as fact. --Junky 23:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
The article is mostly memories of the author and his army mates. Nobody talk about a helo shot down by an in-air burst of an RPG grenade (teoretically OG-7 or termobaric warhead can do), but fencing (screening?) fire of RPG was reported multiply just to not allow the helos to get close enought to land the troops. Of course, direct hit of a HEAT grenade often (depends on the exact point of damage) takes a helo down. --jno 13:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Bit late to this discussion, and I'm no expert, but in the book Black Hawk Down, the author says that the Black Hawks were shot down by the HEAT hitting them directly, he doesn't mention any air bursts at all, but apparently the pilots described the air as "filled" with the warheads, so it was sheer volume of fire that hit the helicopters. I know that the author states one of the helicopters being hit just ahead of the tail rotor and the HEAT burned through pretty much everything in the tail, which, as you'd guess, caused the helicopter to spin out of control. I'm just guessing, and I can't really cite anything, but if the airbursts weren't used in Mogadishu, then, going by the volume of fire and number of RPG-7s used, I'd assume they don't exist.

I am curious about something, though. What is a "rocket propelled grenade launcher", anyway? The RPG-7 is a HEAT launcher, (albeit with anti-personnel warheads), I don't believe the Panzerfaust, Bazooka or Panzershrek were ever called Rocket Propelled Grenade launchers, but they had the same primary purpose: fire a HEAT round, and the Bazooka was just as often used against pillboxes, bunkers and foxholes as tanks, especially in the Pacific. It's apparently used as a correct military term, but I don't see how the RPG-7 is a "grenade launcher", because I've yet to hear a HEAT round actually called a grenade, same goes for a mortar round, and yet essentially that's what the RPG-7 fires. Just curious.

  1. Airburst do exist if you speak about PG-7 HEAT grenades. They do so if they didn't meet target (timed self termination).
  2. RPG-7 is not a "HEAT launcher", it is a "rocket propelled grenade launcher". But it have HEAT grenades as well as fragmentation and thermobaric ones.
  3. PLZ, read the article carefully. --jno 15:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TBG-7

The specs show "armor penetration" for the grenade, while it is anti-personnel.. --jno 11:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RPG-7 operator manual

Anybody have an user/operator manual for this baby? If yes, please contact me. ----Ak70g2

Check this link. Plus, you may try to find the book Наставление по стрелковому делу. Ручной противотанковый гранатомет РПГ-7. Под ред. В.Чайка М. 1982 г. --jno 09:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Penetration

I dont think the armour penetration levels are right,the PG-7V's penetration is listed as 12.9. 12.9 inches is more armour than on most tanks. Combat history has shown that the PG-7V is unable to go through the frontal armour on most main battle tanks. Dudtz 7/17/06 3:10 PM EST

Read carefully: 330mm of RHA. Ever have you seen RHA installed on a real MBT? --jno 13:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Modern or Cold War? I did not give Chobham much thought,but main battle tanks are usually made with Rolled Homogeneous Armour(RHA) and/or Cast Homogeneous Armour(CHA). RHA alone is not the most effective agianst HEAT,but im sure it has resistance HEAT. Dudtz 6/31/06 10:07 PM EST
I meant "bare RHA", without screens, active/dynamic armour, etc... Well, I can give you a PDF monography "40 years of RPG" (in russian, 5Mb here) - you may check for types, years, etc. --jno 11:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Is the Rpg a disposable rocket launcher, like the American M72 or is it reloadable, i.e can you use the same launcher more than once?

It is reloadable. --jno 10:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RPG-7 as an US hunting rifle

Folks, I've just heared that RPG-7 can be bought in the States as hunting rifle with one pre-requisitive: no explosive warheads. All the other features (rounds in cartrige, hand held, no auto fire, etc) seem to be ok. Is it true? --jno 13:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if there is any specific law reguarding rocket launced explosives? Besides large fireworks laws,I don't know of any. It is not a rifle if it is not rifled. Dudtz 10/5/06 6:50 PM EST

The term "Destructive Device" under US laws comes to mind. Perhaps others might have a better handle on the term. --TGC55 14:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
TGC55 is right. Any functional firearm with a caliber of more than .5 in (12.7mm) is considered a DD, except for shotguns and muzzle-loading rifles. --Staos 21:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Price

The general pricing for the weapon is not mentioned; given that the AK47 only costs around 100$ (see the wikipedia's article references), this rifle too should be cheap (I suppose). This as it too was mass produced and is used all around the world and in the developing world. Perhaps a general price can be added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.181.73 (talk) 17:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kill Radius

I have trouble believing that the OG-7V fragmentation warhead has a kill radius of 150m (492ft). Compare this to the TBG-7V single-stage thermobaric warhead, which only has a kill radius of 10m (33ft).

If the entire warhead weight (2kg (4lb.)) is converted into 7.62x51mm NATO fragments (a rough requirement to allow for the penetration of body armour, as claimed), we'd have around 200 ~10g projectiles. A sphere with radius 150m has a surface area of ~280000 square metres, which equates to roughly 1 projectile for every 1400 square metres. That just doesn't sound like a kill zone to me.

Am I missing something?

-K3773R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.130.7 (talk) 09:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense.htm (14 Nov 2007) lists a number of fragmentation warheads similar to the OG-7V. Of particular interest is the OG-7VE and OFG-7V, which have 1000 and 360 projectiles respectively. Also, the OFG-7V has a listed effective burst radius of 45m, with no mention being made of body armour penetration.

Given that both of these warheads 'appear' to be more advanced than the OG-7V (they have more advanced name codes), I find it truly unbelievable that the OG-7V has a kill radius of 150m.

-K3773R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.130.7 (talk) 11:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

In the Panzerfaust article it says that the Russian RPG-2 and RPG-7, as well as the Panzerfaust from which they were derived, were NOT rocket-propelled grenade weapons but recoilless rifles or guns. --Cancun771 (talk) 08:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)