Talk:Royal coat of arms of Scotland

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NB — there was formerly an article titled "Royal Coat of Arms of Scotland"; it included information both on the old royal arms and on the current Scottish version of the UK arms. On August 15 2005, these two articles were split off from one another, to Royal Coat of Arms of Scotland and Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom for use in Scotland; the edit history before that date has remained with the latter article. The contents of the old talk page have been copied to both new pages.

Contents

[edit] Discussion from old "Royal Coat of Arms of Scotland" article

AIUI, this is the not the royal coat of arms of Scotland, but rather the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom as used in Scotland according to Scottish heraldry (just as the arms at Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom are the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom as used in England and Wales according to English heraldry). Marnanel 18:16, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately the images I had of the Royal Arms are corrupted. As soon as I have new images I will upload them so they can be compared.
I left an image of the Royal Banner just to whet your appetite :) --garryq 11:51, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

Someone that knows something about heraldry needs to write an opening section to this article that explains what the difference between these two versions are, and what each are used for. The current opening "Since the uniting of the crowns of England and Scotland..." is quite abrupt. --JW1805 22:33, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] page move

If there's no objection, I'll be moving this page to "Royal Coat of Arms for Scotland" in line with my recent edits. Doops | talk 08:09, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

NB — this was obviated by a move, made the next day, to "Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom (for use in Scotland)".

[edit] New discussion

[edit] The Law

Under Scottish and United Kingdom law [note 2] nobody may make unauthorized use of another person's coat of arms; hence popular use of the Scottish Standard (the Lion Rampant flag), is an illegal usurpation of the royal arms.

I think there's several problems with this, not quite sure how best to fix. Firstly, there's no such thing as UK law as such ... Perhaps English law specifically, or assorted legal provisions elsewhere in the UK, are what's meant? Secondly, the two are very different in such respects: the Scottish law has criminal provisions, and is at least somewhat operative, whereas the English civil law on heraldic matters hasn't been used in half a century. Lastly, I'm not certain that the implication that the "hence" makes is correct: isn't there legislation on use of royal symbols, specifically, beyond the general provisions? (Not certain on this last point, but that was my impression.) Alai 04:59, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll rewrite it. It was done in haste. Doops | talk 05:19, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] origin of supporter beast

The Scots beast has "tufts of hair and a lion-tail" and split hooves of a goat, not smooth horse hooves. This goat-lion corresponds with Chimera goat-lion, sister of Keltos ("the Celt"). She was daughter of Echidna Kelto viper-dragon , daughter of Brettanos of Gaul. - Diodorus 5.24.: J.Fontenrose "Python" U.Cal. Cam. 1959.p.98. Chimera battled Greeks in Lydia and Lycia in Homer's day and became Mount Olympias volcano in Asia Minor. Kelto claimed that Chimera was equal to Athena war-goddess, and Zeus flung Kelto into Mount Etna for her impudence. It seems Zeus was mistook... Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_for_use_in_Scotland"

This site rox!!! I never knew so much 'bout my Scotland before!!


[edit] "In My Defens God Me Defend"

For those interested, image of full motto here: http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/2006AGM/mqos-arms-600.jpg from this site: http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/duedin2006-2.htm

There is also a good quality image of the Scottish Arms of James I & VI here: http://www.rampantscotland.com/symbols/graphics2/crest1899a.jpg

Rab-k (talk) 17:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)