Talk:Royal Saudi Air Force

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Royal Saudi Air Force article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Aviation WikiProject     (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. Aviation Portal Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated projects or task forces: This article was checked against the following criteria for B-Class status on {{subst:WPAVIATION/Timestamp}}: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met This article is not currently associated with a task force. To tag it for one or more task forces, please add the task force codes from the template instructions to the template call. Saudi Arabia WikiProject (Rated B-Class) Saudi Arabia Portal This article is part of WikiProject Saudi Arabia, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to Saudi Arabia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. Military history WikiProject     (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (general topics): Military aviation task force National militaries task force Associated task forces (nations and regions): Middle Eastern military history task force

Contents 1 History 2 Tail Inscription 3 RSAF inventories 4 Image for public use 5 EuroFighter Survey

[edit] History

The first part of this article doesn't talk about the the history

of the Saudi Air Force at all. ==

Britain’s BAE Systems To Upgrade Saudi Tornado Jets: Report

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, LONDON 11 Sep 06 http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2095874&C=europe British defense company BAE Systems has won a major contract to upgrade Saudi Arabia’s aging Tornado fighter jets, weekly financial newspaper The Business said Sept. 10. The deal, worth 2.5 billion pounds ($4.6 billion), comes three weeks after the sale of 72 Eurofighter Typhoon planes to Saudi Arabia in a contract worth 10 billion pounds. ”It is not appropriate for BAE Systems to make any comment on discussions between these two parties,” a spokeswoman for the firm told The Business. However, an unnamed Saudi source told the newspaper: “This will add a lot to the Tornados. ”The old ones with the new technologies will become de facto new aircraft. They will be the new generation of Tornados with the inside configuration completely changed. ”It will be mostly done in the UK and then all the know-how will be passed on to the Saudis. And with such a cost, it makes sense.” The Business said the Royal Saudi Airforce hopes to keep its 80-strong fleet of Tornados flying until 2020. 81.86.144.210 21:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tail Inscription

When discussing the tail inscription and how religion is important i think this is a BIT inaccurate. The article says how it has the declaration of faith on it. Well ... its not that it has it on the fin but its more the fin has the FLAG of saudi arabia on it, which also has that text on itJnusaira 18:25, 27 December 2006 (UTC)jnusaira

[edit] RSAF inventories

I have asked that the warring editors bring their debate on aircraft inventory quantities here, instead of disrupting work on their article by all the constant reverting (and breaking of the 3RR rule (which can get you suspended). It is usual for sources to disagree on numbers of aircraft in service. Where there is major disagreement (as for the F-15s here, for instance), it is proper for disagreeing editors to go to the talk page, present their numbers and identify their sources. It is possible that examination of multiple independent sources will lead to a consensus.

I have looked at Jane's World Air Forces and its entry (last updated 2006-11-28) gives a total of 150 F-15s in service (57 F-15C, 25 F-15D, and 68 F-15S). The quantity of 195 that at least one editor has given is actually higher than the total number of F-15s that Saudi Arabia has acquired altogether (74/24 F-15C/D and 72 F-15S = 170 aircraft in all). I haven't looked at the other disagreements yet, but I would ask that those editors who have been edit-warring post their information and identify their sources here. Askari Mark (Talk) 23:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image for public use

i recently made this flag below and i hope it would be useful. Ammar (^Talk - ^{Don't Talk}) 10:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EuroFighter Survey

Feel free to state your position on ( Adding Flags of the Four Manufacturer countries of EuroFighter into the Table) *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~ ,Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons. Ammar (^Talk - ^{Don't Talk}) 21:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Ammar, you are right in sensing that this issue needs to be resolved diplomatically, but it is an issue with broader application than just the RSAF – or even Eurofighter GmbH, for that matter. If you don't mind, I've raised the issue on the WP:AIR talk page so that it can receive the broader coverage it deserves. Askari Mark (Talk) 23:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes , Good idea Ammar (^Talk - ^{Don't Talk}) 07:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

We still didnt reach a final answer Askari . what now ?Ammar (^Talk - ^{Don't Talk}) 19:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, "attendance" has been light ever since school started back up. Anyway, the next step is to be bold and see what it looks like. Don't worry, if someone doesn't like it, they'll soon let us know – well, fairly soon. Askari Mark (Talk) 01:39, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I see that MarlboroOne is not against the idea , but he removed the French flag for some reason :) . In fact , France is a GmbH member . Ammar (^Talk - ^{Don't Talk}) 17:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's an honest mistake. When people think of France and "fighter", they think Rafale, but then they forget that the French aero industry is larger than Dassault. I suspect we may have to tweak the order in terms of ownership share, though. Askari Mark (Talk) 17:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC

Not against the idea if it has consensus, although on smaller screens it gets a bit busy. Could help the small screen users if we removed the images from the right of the table. Sorry I have to disagree the French have nothing to do with Eurofighter, if you read the [Eurofighter website] and not the wiki article it clearly says: Alenia Aeronautics 21%, BAE Systems 33%, EADS CASA 13%, EADS Deutschland 33%. Perhaps confused because people lump the EADS shareholding together but in reality it is only the Germany and Spanish bits that are part of the consortium. So can I remove the French flag again please? MilborneOne 18:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you're confusing workshare splits with ownership, and they're very different on this program. Before the DaimlerChrysler share dump in 2006, the ownership division of EADS was 30.35% French, 30.29% German, 5.53% Spanish, and 33.83% public shareholders. Given EADS’ 46% share of Eurofighter, this means the net ownership of Eurofighter was 33% British, 21% Italian, 14% French, 13.9% German, 2.5% Spanish, and 15.6% public. After the “rebalancing”, the ownership split for EADS became 24.81% French, 22.5% German, 5.53% Spanish, and 47.16% public. This means the revised ownership shares for Eurofighter became 33% British, 21% Italian, 11.41% French, 10.35% German, 2.54% Spanish, and 21.7% public. However, hidden in this public amount (and this is the kicker) is the fact that Russia acquired 6% of EADS through Vneshtorgbank; this means that Russia owns 2.76% of Eurofighter – more than production partner Spain (with only 2.54%)!! Wouldn't that really stir up the hornet’s nest?! Imagine the howling if I added the Russian flag!  :o

I think in the end, though, we’ll probably want to list only the Eurofighter production partners in order of diminishing shares: UK, Germany, Italy, and Spain. (To avoid debates over the same percentages allotted to Germany and the UK, the tie-breaker should be the number of aircraft ordered.) The key question remains, though, does it look acceptable? Askari Mark (Talk) 21:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)