Talk:Roy Brown (RAF officer)

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Shouldn't it be mentioned that, while (as stated in the article) officially credited with shooting down Manfred von Richthofen, it is today generally believed that von Richthofen was hit by an anti-aircraft gunner from the ground.

^ Done. --Utotri 14:37, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Or, mention of the nickname Snoopy as mentioned in the Red Baron article itself?

[edit] Canadian/Australian bias

I was watching a show about the red Baron on the discovery channel and it gave the credit to the Australian sergeant and I noticed that the show was sponsered by the Australian Film Board or something.

I've also seen shows where they interviewed a (now dead) Australian soldier who was at the scene.. and he said two of them saw Brown shoot down the baron and how he doesn't know how the Australians could have hit him, since they were just taking pot shots at him. So all I'm saying is, I don't think this article should be leaning so much to the Australian side.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.119.123 (talk • contribs) October 15, 2006

I remove the section that stated "

I saw the documentary also. It is based solely on the 'trajectory' of the bullet. From the lower right back towards the front left chest. That documentary assumed the angle of impact must mean that it was fired from the ground. However, consider the situation. We are talking about a "dog-fight". The Foker Tri-plane was rolling, pitching, yawing, climbing, and diving. Imagine how much manuverability that a 3 wing airplane has!! So therefore, it is possible the pursuing plane could have fired from any angle. The fatal bullet passed clean through the Red Baron and of course could never be recovered. Therefore it is impossible to conduct ballisctics tests.

While recognizing that for "propoganda reason" Capt Brown was awarded credit for the "kill", of course realistically, we could never know who fired the fatal bullet that day=claffey-27

Claffey27 please do not edit other people's posts on talk pages, as you did to the first paragraph on this page. Also, please sign & date your posts on talk pages with ~~~~.

I have brought this article more into harmony with the von Richthofen one. Soundofmusicals 10:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted your edit to the article, as you removed material referenced from an article in a refereed journal, by an expert on military medicine. The real problem for those who would like to give Brown the credit is that the fatal shot (whoever fired it) caused a serious wound which would have killed Richthofen very quickly, and Brown did not fire at him within that timeframe. Consequently, no credible sources believe it was Brown. The debate/controversy in historical circles now is about which person on the ground killed Richthofen. Grant | Talk 04:21, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I DID NOT STATE THAT BROWN FIRED THE FATAL SHOT! Please re-read my earlier comments. What I said was that it is unknown who fired the fatal shot. Since the bullet was never recovered, ballistics test can never be done and we will never know. What I removed was a false fact. Anyone from anysource who states they know "definately" who fired the fatal shot is expressing opinion. Even PBS has opinions! Since that section is opinion and non-verifiable fact, that section is being removed. If you have trouble understanding,please take a remedial English course.-claffey27

I am not accusing you of portraying Brown as firing the fatal shot. What I am pointing out out to you is that Brown could not have done it because of the known sequence of events, according to expert medical opinion. In other words Richthofen would not have lived as long as he did had Brown hit him.

And once again, please do not delete referenced material from articles. Grant | Talk 01:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I have changed this article to harmonise better with the von Richthofen article. My attempts to insert proper referencing seem to have malfunctioned - in case someone can help? Soundofmusicals 10:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

i have to preface these remarks with a disclaimer: i grew up 7 miles north of carleton place, ontario. BUT, the article does seem to have a stongly pro-australian pov. i read the australian article in the external link. the autopsy,on which great empahsis is placed, was a) conducted by australian physicians, and b) was so primitive by contemporary standards, as to have been non-existent. all they did was look at him. the body was not opened. ALL of their conclusions were based solely on what they saw as the angles of a single entrance and exit wound.you don't have to be an afficionado of csi (i've never seen it), to realize that that is grossly inadequate. they can't possibly have known what that bullet did inside. it might have missed everything vital (it happens)(and even penetrating injury to the heart doesn't always result in instantaneous death) and he might have bled internally and developed a hemopneumothorax, or cardiac tamponade until he lost consciousness, or died.the von richtofen article cites some source as saying that the fatal shot was a .303 rifle round. how the hell does anybody know? no projectile was recovered.moreover,'expert medical opinion'? these guys were military surgeons,(and 1918 miltary surgeons) not forensic pathologists. they wouldn't be accepted as expert witnesses in any first world court today. as to the rationale that his behaviour was a result of a previous head injury, pppffffft. that is SUCH nebulous surmise as to have no place in the discussion. bear in mind, i'm not saying that arthur roy brown shot down the red baron.i think the bottom line on my argumeent is that it is not possible to know, with the degree of certainty that the article seems to have, who killed manfred albrecht, hauptmann freiherr von richtofen.but,consider the analogy of instant replay. the call on the ice stands without incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. greater note needs to be made of the fact that the issue remains controversial.Toyokuni3 (talk) 06:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

It is most unlikely that Brown shot down the Red Baron - and ALL the reputable sources of the last thirty years or so make this clear. The online reference is far from being the best source anyway - try and get some of the others from your local library. The bullet WAS retrieved incidentally! This is all the article can say - what real uncertainty that remains gets plenty of air, considering. I think everyone agrees it would be more romantic to have one famous ace shot down by another - but unlike a boy's own magazine or a wartime propaganda account we have to go for likely fact, not what makes the best tale. Saving May was every bit as fine a feat anyway, when all's said and done. A more callous man than Brown may well have been able to stalk and surprise the Baron while he was engrossed with shooting May down, but that, to his credit, was not Brown's way - he was more concerned with saving his friend than killing his enemy. Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 08:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)