Talk:Rotting Christ

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Contents

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ADeadPoem.jpg

Image:ADeadPoem.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Khronos.jpg

Image:Khronos.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Rcb.JPG

Image:Rcb.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Sdcover.jpg

Image:Sdcover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:RottingChristSOTA.jpg

Image:RottingChristSOTA.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 10:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:RottingChristGenesis.jpg

Image:RottingChristGenesis.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Wow, incredible

While we're at it, maybe we should consider deletion of the album pages of Jessica Simpson, Keith Urban and The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Those articles have the same album cover fair-use explanation (or lack thereof), so why not? Oh, I know, they're not a band called Rotting Christ.

If this page is going to be taken apart (basically vandalized - one editor even removed a good wikilink), I say it should be deleted ... a shame people can't separate their prejudices with impartial duties. --Danteferno 12:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictory?

Hmm, under the biography section, is it just me or is the first line, stating they started as raw black metal, contradicting the very next paragraph which states that they started as grindcore on their first demos?—arf! 00:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Just you. It states that the grindcore-era was when they were in rehearsal status (i.e. garage band) and were not signed to a major label, played internationally, and had full length albums. Please read again, nothing contradictory at all.--Danteferno 18:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Passage to arcturo.jpg

Image:Passage to arcturo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hmmm

No one seems to use this talk page, but anyways, I have added to the band's genres the label of melodic black metal, as I believe that is what they are more than anything else. They have experimented with gothic metal, unfortunately, but pretty much, other than their grindcore demos, they have exhibited melodic black metal tendencies since they began and have always had that as a big part of their sound. Even almost all the albums here on wikipedia state they are melodic black metal. Navnløs 23:34, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To Danteferno and others about inclusion of paragraph

Ok, I've made many edits to the Rotting Christ page and they've all turned out fine but I was recently reverted (reasonably, so ,I suppose) because of this added paragraph in the Publicity section about the evolution of their music.

More recently they have gone back to their earlier more extreme style, while still utilizing some elements from their mid era albums. The use of clean vocals are almost totally absent in their last albums as is the use of doom, gothic and industrial elements. They have been compared to oriental metal bands with their latest release, Theogonia, even going so far as to use some of the "epic" sound usually associated with viking metal bands. Their technicality can additionally be heard to have matured.

Now, I may understand why I was reverted, and I may try to find sources, but I happen to think what I said is pretty obvious to anyone who has listened to all of Rotting Christ's music and their new album Theogonia. They no longer use gothic metal, doom metal, or any of that crap (definitely no industrial sound). It is also true that many have started calling them oriental metal with the latest release. Someone already added them to the oriental metal page a while back (not me). They certainly are more technical on the newest album and display some viking metal characteristics (hence the oriental metal tag) with a more "epic" sound. I mean, the whole album is based on Greek mythology, with its gods and whatnot, differing from their previous works. What are your thoughts on this, fellow wikipedians? Something about their new music shift definitely needs to be said because right now the article says this:

Despite the name, the band's traditional lyrical themes involving evil and occultism has evolved more recently into a more "mystic" path [11], and they have modified their musical direction on each album, utilizing elements such as clean melodic baritone vocals, doom, gothic metal and industrial music traits, and male/female Benedictine chants.

Which is no longer true at all with their last two albums. Something needs to be said about their new shift. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 21:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

What you think their last 2 albums sound like is a matter of opinion, not a fact. I could say "A Dead Poem" was one of their most "sad" albums and "Thy Mighty Contract" was one of their most "kvlt troo black metal" albums - bottom line, that is only my opinion and doesn't belong in the article. Likewise, the supposed aggression, technicality, "epic quality" and viking metal/oriental metal direction is opinion/original research. Case in point: What does Greek mythology/gods have to do with viking or oriental metal?
While we're on the subject of the newer albums being the most aggressive, Theogonia and Sanctus Diavolos sound nothing like Passage to Arcturo or Satanas Tedeum (the early discs). In production and experimentation, female vocals, samples and many more things, no comparison to the old raw stuff at all. Every metal band says their newer albums will always be the heaviest they've ever done or will sound like the early material, and that falls under "band promotion". --Danteferno (talk) 00:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
You're missing the point. Could we at least add this in?

More recently they have gone back to their earlier more extreme style, while still utilizing some elements from their mid era albums. The use of clean vocals are almost totally absent in their last albums as is the use of doom, gothic and industrial elements.

Because you shold at least be able to agree with that. It's not a matter of opinion. On their last two albums they do not use any doom, gothic, or industrial elements from their mid era. Also, the newer albums, while not as hgeavy as their earliest albums, do make a return to their more extreme melodic black metal material. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Clean vocals being almost absent from Theogonia and the last albums is a complete fabrication - there's a lot of deep, non-black metal vocals in Theogonia and the last albums, as there are also industrial, doom, and gothic metal traits. The closest the band ever got lately to the extreme black metal sound - and most media backs this up - was on the Genesis and Khronos 666 albums. But those aren't recent - 2000 and 2002, if I'm correct. All the releases after have much slower tempos and the industrial/goth/doom approach.
The article wouldn't look bad expanded, but it would be detrimental to include personal opinion and original research. What's more, Wikipedia band articles are meant to inform, not be a music review. --Danteferno (talk) 01:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Let's breakdown THEOGONIA, for whoever has heard it:
  1. The Sign of Prime Creation - a lot of clean/spoken/chant singing with the rasp singing
  2. Keravnos Kyvernitos - on the aggresive side, but a lot of slowing down by (2:40) with clean chanting and slower tempo.
  3. Enuma Elish - also aggressive, but :30 in there's industrial elements and obvious female vocals during the chorus part.
  4. Gaia Tellus - deep clean vocals mixed in with distorted singing during chorus (1:58)
  5. Helios Hyperion - Similar direction to Enuma Elish but no female vocals.
  6. Nemecic - clean chanting, mid-paced, synth/flute driven.
  7. He, The Aethyr - Pretty aggressive on the most part, but a clean spoken interlude at 3:09.
  8. Phobos Synogogue - Mid-paced with industrial samples 2:27 into song.
  9. Rege Diabolicus - Deep clean spoken word at the beginning, otherwise aggressive black direction throughout the song.
  10. Threnody - Probably one of the slowest songs they have ever done, even as an outro a lot of clean chanting in the background, very "groove/doom driven" pace.
All being said, this: "More recently they have gone back to their earlier more extreme style, while still utilizing some elements from their mid era albums. The use of clean vocals are almost totally absent in their last albums as is the use of doom, gothic and industrial elements" doesn't make sense at all.--Danteferno (talk) 02:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh man...I don't even know what to say to you. Can we at least say they've gone back to a more melodic black metal approach on their last albums? I mean, even you can't argue that. Their last few albums were nothing like their mid era "dark metal" material (POV: which was horrible) where they got all slow and almost gothic metal with some minor black metal stuff in their material. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 21:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Does the article not already state "melodic black metal" has been their recent direction? And what is the case for trying to separate them from "gothic metal" or anything "gothic" when that has been a trademark for almost all their career? Sure, they're a lot faster than the TOTLL/A Dead Poem/Sleep of the Angels album era but that does not relieve the band from the various gothic/gothic metal (chants, female chants, atmosphere) doom (slower tempos) and industrial elements still apparent in their music thru 2007. --Danteferno (talk) 01:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Because gothic metal and black metal are nothing alike and they are not genres that are to associated with each other, generally. This is part of my agenda, but I want to seperate them from their gothic metal past. Most extreme metal fans look down on gothic metal big time, if you didn't know. I got no problem with doom/death (which is more gothic than gothic metal could ever be) but gothic metal makes me cringe (only very little is good). Gothic metal being mixed with black metal makes me cringe even more. It makes me think of CoF and some other horrible bands. I can assure you as well that no real bm fans like CoF, just in case you didn't know. So yeah, I see RC taking a new direction, and I appreciate it, and the way the article says it now in that section it makes it sound as if they are still doing the dark metal stuff, and they aren't anymore. I just want to correect that oversight. I'm trying to do so in a pleasant way that others can agree on as wikipedia is built on collaboration and I follow wikipedia's rules. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 18:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Again, "gothic metal making you cringe" is no excuse to remove it from the article. Every reference on the internet alludes RC as being black/gothic metal or the gothic elements in their music, because that describes their music to a T. Gothic/black does not automatically mean Cradle of Filth with the layers of keyboards and female vocals. As has been stated, RC use female vocals to a lesser extent and often a choir (which is what brings the gothic elements) and that's why they're not only "melodic extreme black metal". I'm through discussing this with you, it's going nowhere, you can't go beyond your own POV and that doesn't appear to be changing. --Danteferno (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
From Metal Maniacs/Decibel/Season of Mist (label) release:
"For the first time in nearly 7 years, Greece's dark metal pioneers, ROTTING CHRIST, reign over North America...On Rotting Christ's 10th studio album, "Theogonia" the Greek black metal gods return faithful to their ancient blackened-gothic style while materializing as a faster, more aggressive entity. The established melodies of the past are indeed alive but this new apparition is cloaked with deeper atmospheric and epic elements as they recall the sordid history of their country land." [1] Case closed, time to move on. --Danteferno (talk) 14:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

You are still not getting what I'm saying. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:29, 10 March 2008 (UTC)