Talk:Rotterdam

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Contents

[edit] Density and Area

Please if any one knows both the Density and Area of Rotterdam e-mail me or posted.

zionmass@hotmail.com

towns, villages and townships I used to live in rotterdam north, so i was kind of surprised when "noord" was linked to a place in aruba, which is not even on the same continent.


Education

also has the Willem de Kooning Academy Hogeschool Rotterdam and the forward thinking Piet Zwart Institute

Pim Fortuyn isn't born in Rotterdam,but in Zaandam.(I'm a Dutchman,so i can also read the Dutch Wikipedia)

  • Pim Fortuyn wasn't born in Zaandam but in Velsen. Aecis 16:36, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amateur clubs

Why did you removed the amateur clubs?

Because Rotterdam has way more than 4 amateur clubs, and the 4 you added do not stand out from the others. In fact, one of them (Zwart Wit '28) doesn't exist anymore. Furthermore, it is doubtful that they are notable enough to be included in an article about Rotterdam (an article about sports in Rotterdam would be another story.) Aecis 20:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

  • A fix will come up in a few minutes time. Aecis 22:54, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Fixed. Aecis 23:06, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

Rotterdam has a green-white-green horizontal striped flag.

Yes, images of the flag and coat of arms (shield with vertical green-white-green stripes, with 4 lions on top, carried by two lions) are available in the commons section of wikipedia http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Arms_Rotterdam.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_Rotterdam.png However I am not sure whether we should add them to the page. --Arnoutf 22:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Why not?--Scathane 10:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cubical houses

The Kijkkubus is the show cube, accessible to the general public (after paying an entrance fee). The houses themselves are called the Kubuswoningen. I've changed it in the article. Arvey 09:07, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flood of 1953

Looks like they had a major flood in 1953. I didn't read the article well, but I didn't see it mentioned. [] Will look at it someday in the time being, I will save a link [1]

[edit] Only Dutch

Is it true that it is forbidden to speak other languages than dutch in Rotterdam? Or is that a February Fools day joke?

  • I live in Rotterdam and I've never heard of this. I can safely say that it is nonsense. Ruffnekk 07:33, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Although one of our cabinet ministers has been making statements about a convenant of speaking only Dutch in public spaces in the Netherlands (welcome tourists!!), which seems unlikely to be implemented. Arnoutf 10:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • It is partially true that there are plans to arrange a rule that says that local citizens are not allowed to talk any other language than Dutch. It is to prevent any plotting for terrorism in secrecy. Also, there have been recent acts of genocide in Rotterdam, respectfully because of discrimination against the native Dutch by especially Turkish and Morrocan citizens. A significant example is Theo van gogh, although I'm not sure if this was in Rotterdam. --Nin 20:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Van Gogh happened in Amsterdam. Still sounds very weird, so in this case a local citizen of one the worlds largest harbours is only allowed to talk Dutch to visting sailors; also very helpfull for Erasmus University for visiting scholars. Besides I just can not believe there is legal grounds for such a rule in Dutch law. But let's see; antiterrorism measures seem to take preference all over the world without reasonalbe arguments anyway.... Arnoutf 21:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rotterdam population

I removed the sentence saying the "rotterdam agglomeration is vies with the amsterdam agglomoration for first in the nation" . no idea what the means, if someone knows please add.

I agree that is a incomprehensible sentence, and you are right to remove. The meaning is that although Rotterdam Municipality is smaller than Amsterdam; greater Rotterdam is about the same size as Greater Amsterdam. This is no small feat of pride for Rotterdam as there is a fierce competition between the two cities on all kinds of issues. I think many people from Rotterdam would like to see a reference to this so I added a few words after the first sentence in the municiaplity bit, where there is talk about the greater Rotterdam area to reflect this point: "which is comparable to the greater Amsterdam area" Arnoutf 10:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

There was a proposal indeed, but it will never be accepted. Moreover, the proposal itself wasn't that extreme as it sounds (tourists and imigrants would be allowed to speak their own language) but was more of a measure to improve the Dutch language of immigrants

[edit] The main picture

Does anybody have a better picture from the city, as the top picture barely shows it.

I've uploaded and added a new image that better shows the skyline of Rotterdam. --Mecil 03:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
To be honest I liked the spooky foggy picture better than the current one. Anyway. I have a problem with the new one for two reasons. Firstly the image quality of the sky (too white) is less than perfert. Secondly The focus is more on the foreground than on the skyline. The soccer stadium and the (relatively small) apartment buildings are not that interesting. Also this is again a high point of view for the photo. I think a lower point of view gives a better rendering of the skyline. Personally I might like a picture from taken from the border of the Kralingse Plas. If anyone could make a good one???? Arnoutf 18:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I see what you mean, sadly my only pictures from that vantage point also have the same sunlight problems. But I think that the location would be great for a picture, could a wikipedian take a stroll, take a good picture and upload it? :-) --Mecil 18:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I've asked a professional landscape photographer whose work I know from a calendar to donate a picture. If that doesn't work, I might take a picture in the near future from the Euromast, de Kop van Zuid or from the Maasboulevard. A picture of Rotterdam's center should at least show some highrise buildings, the Nieuwe Maas river and preferably both the Erasmusbrug and Willemsbrug. Sippin Soda 19:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
If you can get a professional picture that would be briljant. Be sure that the photo when uploaded gets the correct usage license, Wiki is very carefull about copyright violation. Arnoutf 19:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The professional photographer answered my e-mail and is willing to cooperate and donate a picture. How do we best protect his copyrights? Sippin Soda 12:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
When you upload the picture you get to choose from a list of Licenses. Please use Wikipedia:Copyrights to determine which applies. I myself have only uploaded a few of my own pictures, so the GNU-self made always applied. This situation is a bit more complicated, so I think it is important to get it right. Arnoutf 13:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. As soon as he has a picture, I'll just show him what licences there are and make him pick, since I know little of copyright. Sippin Soda 19:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beach in Rotterdam

The article says that there was a beach in Rotterdam during the summer 2003 and 2005. As far as I know, that beach is still there. Is that not so?

Only in the summer I guess, so it would be again rather than still, if you know for sure it is there in the summer of 2006 (i.e. now) feel free to add that to the relevant section. (PS please sign using four tildes (~)) Arnoutf 20:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Nickname Manhatten upon Meuse

Hi all, I noticed some reverting on the addition of the nickname Manhatten upon Meuse. Before a revert war starts. Please discuss. Personally I can live with both inclusion (as this term has been used fairly frequently, especially for the Kop van Zuid development) and removal (as this has been used mainly by planners as a PR stunt). So before a next revert, please list arguments why here. Thanks Arnoutf 09:32, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I think thousands of Google hits in combination with some decent references like [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] and last but not least [7] will clarify the name is used quite often by locals and official instances. You're right when you say that it's mainly used in combination with the Kop van Zuid project, but it's becoming a nickname for the city more and more. SportsAddicted 12:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion the only true nickname is Rotjeknor.

[edit] Coat of arms and motto

The current translation of the motto (Sterker door Strijd) is given as(Stronger through Effort). This is based on the translation made for the American town Rotterdam (NY state) see: here. There is no account to be found why it was thus adopted, neiter could I find any other reference to a translation. IMHO the translation is not correct (it may have been adapted in the American case) as the translation of Strijd should be somehting like "Strife" "Struggle" "Fight" or "Battle" which is a much stronger statement dan "Effort" (Which would back-translate to "inspanning" "moeite" or something similar). So can someone provide the official translation (supported by the Dutch Rotterdam) Arnoutf 19:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

"Effort" just doesn't cover the more dramatic meaning of "Strijd." It may sound warlike to modern ears, but we shouldn't tone it down. According to my (authoritative) Dutch-English dictionary, "strijd" is "fight"/"struggle." In the English-Dutch version, "struggle for freedom" translates as "vrijheidsstrijd," and in Merriam-Webster, "effort" isn't even a synonym for "struggle". I think we shouldn't look at the American case as authoritative just because it's already been there for a while. Sippin Soda 12:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The device "Sterker door strijd" was awarded "…in memory of the courage and strength with which the population has endured the tests of the Second World War." From Nederlandse Gemeentewapens (Dutch municipal coats of arms) site. (I made my own translation from Dutch because the given English text uses different wording.)
Same site translates the device as "Stronger through Battle," which reflects the context of war.
Struggle, the current translation in this article, comes in the device of Zeeland: "Luctor et Emergo," I Struggle and Emerge. RToV 22:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

If the WWII bombing of Rotterdam is the origin of the motto, I support the translation Battle (lit. slag). Not knowing that was the origin, struggle (lit. worsteling) seemed an adequate translation of Strijd (lit. fight); at least much better than effort (lit. inspanning). Arnoutf 22:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
A bit more about the awarding of the device in this PDF in Dutch. It's the best source I could find so far. But I'm not yet sure which translation to choose, see outdented below. RToV 20:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Strijd is a generic term, appliccable in many contexts. It may even mean competition. "Sterker door Strijd" is equally wide applicable, and applied. For instance, many sports clubs in Rotterdam use it as their device. For these, battle would be a rather unfitting translation. Other translations may be as unfitting in other contexts.
I think we should eigther try to find a generic English translation, or else outline that the translation depends on the context. For the moment, I think, struggle, fight, battle and maybe contest deserve equal consideration. RToV 20:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Second Maasvlakte

I deleted the following:

Constructing a second Maasvlakte was the subject of political debate in the 1990s, because it would be partly government-financed. Construction started in the summer of 2004 (press release, PDF in Dutch).

In my recollection, the controversy wasn't so much about the way of financing as it was about environmental issues. This is backed up by the Dutch Wikipedia article on the Maasvlakte. In addition, construction did not start in 2004 at all; it was stopped by the Raad van State. I collected the rest of the information from the Dutch Wikipedia Maasvlakte site again and from the Havenbedrijf Rotterdam's second Maasvlakte website (www.maasvlakte2.com). Sippin Soda 18:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Length of Nieuwe Waterweg

Can anyone find out the length of the Nieuwe Waterweg? The Dutch Wikipedia article says 20 kilometers, but seems to include the Scheur. So does the English Wikipedia article, which says 15 kilometers. Old maps, however, suggest the length that must actually have been dug appears to be only 4 kilometers.Sippin Soda 20:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

On old map on the Internet (http://www.genlias.nl/_resources/images/deelnemers/nationaal_archief_kaart_1865.gif) indicates that the Nieuwe Waterweg starts west from a vertical line from Brielle. A measurement on Google Earth results in a length of less than 6.5 kilometers for the Nieuwe Waterweg. Sippin Soda 20:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Politics

No politics section? Given what has happened in Rotterdam poolitics over the last decade, that is a serious omission. DirkvdM 09:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Question many may wonder

Does Rotterdam have the same liberal laws that makes Amsterdam popular among tourists? *ahem* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.201.181 (talk) 05:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? Dutch law? Yes obviously as it is in the Netherlands. Arnoutf (talk) 20:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Football Teams

Excelsior won't be in the Eredivisie for the next season (2008-09). Only Sparta and Feyenoord will be playing in the Eredivisie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.128.41.131 (talk) 14:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)