Talk:Rotoscoping

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Contents 1 2001 2 What is it? 3 Pruning the lists 4 Digital rotoscoping? 5 Muybridge 6 First use of digital rotoscoping 7 Excessive number of examples 8 Horses 9 A Free Software rotoscoping program

[edit] 2001

I removed a bit about 2001: A Space Odyssey using rotoscoping. 2001 was notable for extensively using a two-pass motion-control matte technique, with a black-and-white matte pass, and a second beauty pass with the same move. This was done in preference to bluescreen or rotoscoping simply for the very high quality of the final composite. I can't say definitively that there was no rotoscoping used, but if it was used, there was very little of it, and I can't see it. Perhaps we should ask Douglas Trumbull -- he would know.

-- The Anome

[edit] What is it?

This article isn't actually that helpful in terms of explaining what a rotoscope actually is... I read the entire artice and still only have a vaugh understanding of what it is and does. Could someone who does know please add a simple explanation at the beginning of the artice as to what a rotoscope is and how it works? A picture of one might also help to clear things up. Oracleoftruth 16:56, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

- Agreed (Guidofd 04:37, 21 November 2005 (UTC))

Indeed. I'd also like to know what exactly it is. - James Foster 09:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, so the current version of the article states that "A rotoscope is a device that enables animators to trace live action movement, frame by frame, for use in animated cartoons. Originally, pre-recorded live-film images were projected onto a matte windowpane and redrawn by an animator."

Did this "original" process involve a rotoscope, or did the rotoscope replace this process of projecting live-film images onto a matte windowpane? What does the rotoscope itself actually do? Can someone supply a picture or diagram, as I think those would possibly improve this article a lot. The image of the running horse doesn't really seem to have much to do with a rotoscope, even if it was created by one. - James Foster 10:41, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I think rotoscoping is more of a technique rather than an actual device. I'm going to change the article to reflect that. --MisterHand 14:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

• Rotoscope is the device, rotoscoping the technique, the latter can be done in many ways. I added a picture of Fleischer's Rotoscope, with a short description in the caption. --Janke | Talk 19:21, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much! :) - James Foster 13:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pruning the lists

I think the lists should be significally shortened to notable films, videos & games, just a few per category. Anyone care to do it, or shall I? --Janke | Talk 07:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the list of movies is quite large for the word notable. Movies with lesser or uninportant usage should be removed, but I recommend contacting a movie maniac for the judging of the exclusion.

Also I added Another World to the game list, I guess it´s just as notable as it´s "brother" Flashback, and to prevent the game list from also growing, I sugest we mantain Heart of the Alien out of it, It´s not very significant since it´s a midquel. It just adds scenes and facts to Another World Narcotic Dream 01:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, (just read your userpage), I guess you are fit for the editing of the list after all! Narcotic Dream 01:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the changes to the list because they seemed to be pruning out the genuinely notable films, while leaving many that aren't. I've heard of almost all of the films that were removed, but only a few that were kept. I (prematurely) assumed somewhat poor faith and reverted the change. I think that we should discuss which films should be kept. Certainly Star Wars is notable. I think that such removals should be considered more carefully. Is there any particular reason why the current list was kept? --Eyrian 07:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. But if you feel competent to edit the list, please do so. I have no knowledge of music videos or games myself. I reverted you because I feel the lists are too long - not because of any particular examples. It may have been too hasty a revert, sorry! I do agree that Star Wars belongs in the list, for instance. I suggest we change the title to "Some notable examples" and keep them down to, say no more than half a dozen per category. Furthermore, I suggest the "films" category is split into animated and live action films. Care to do it? --Janke | Talk 09:05, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

In fact, I took the bull by the horn and did it myself. Further pruning might still be done in the games section. --Janke | Talk 09:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks good. I just wanted to make sure that the lists were being looked at carefully. --Eyrian 20:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Digital rotoscoping?

What is digital rotoscoping? I have heard the term being used a couple of times. Sin City is said to have used digital rotoscoping.

See Waking Life. CGI is also considered a form of digital rotoscope. And motion capture IS digital rotoscoping as well. (Ibaranoff24 03:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC))

I don't know what the hell either of you are talking about. Sin City did not use rotoscoping, CGI is not considered a form a rotoscoping, and motion capture certainly is not rotoscoping. Rotoscoping is the process of animating over live-action footage. Sin City shot live-action in front of green screens and filled in the backgrounds with CGI; this is known as digital backlot. CGI can only be considered rotoscoping if it's overlaid onto live-action footage in a way that the CGI mimics the movements of it -- such as the Davy Jones character in Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, which overlaid CGI onto the film in which actor Bill Nighy acted. If the CGI doesn't mimic the movements of something captured on the live-action film, it's not rotoscoping. As for motion capture, if it doesn't animate over film, it's certainly not rotoscoping, because there is no live-action film for any animators to trace over, only the captured movements of the motion-capture artist. DT29 03:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muybridge

The animated gif shall NOT be of the original Muybridge photos, it is of the animation rotoscoped from it. This was the original upload by me. The "tampering" referred to in the recent revert (see article page history) was changing the original animation (which I uploaded to this page) to the Muybridge photos, which I naturally reverted. This article deals with a technique for producing animation, and the animated gif is an example of an animated cartoon made by rotoscoping. The Muybridge photos have their place in the Eadweard Muybridge article, not here. The photos themselves have nothing to do with rotoscoping, which was invented decades after the photos were taken. --Janke | Talk 14:12, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you! Hopefully this explanation will end the confusion. -- MisterHand 14:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
• I stand corrected, with apologies. Mooveeguy 17:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First use of digital rotoscoping

The first film to use real computer generated effects was Westworld in 1973. It was used in the gunfighter robot's POV shots. the effects took so long to do, a frame at a time, that the preview screenings had to be shown without the computer graphics.

Later films like Monty Python's The Meaning of Life and TV series like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy used simulated computer graphics that were traditional hand-drawn animation.

It wasn't until The Last Starfighter in 1984 that real computer graphics would make another appearance as film effect, being used both for complete exterior space scenes and composited with live actors.

[edit] Excessive number of examples

There are simply too many examples - half the article! I pruned it down to one or two in each category. If you feel some important one was removed, put it back, but we should NOT have a very long list - Wiki guidelines says so... --Janke | Talk 19:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Was the technique used in Who framed Roger Rabbit? Jigen III 16:12, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

See the linked list. The answer is yes. --Eyrian 17:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horses

Does the article really need two versions of Edweard Muybridge’s galloping horse? I should think one would be enough. —Frungi 18:14, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

• Agree. Suggest we keep the brown cartoony one (not because it was made by me, but because it was voted featured picture). --Janke | Talk 17:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
  • An anon. editor removed the wrong horse... ;-) I put it back... It's the other one that had the wrong description. --Janke | Talk 07:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Free Software rotoscoping program

I'm the author of a Free Software (at the moment, quite basic, but the only one I am aware of) rotoscoping program: http://www.toonyphotos.com/. If I wasn't the author I'd add it to the External Links section myself, but since I am, I thought I might just mention it here and leave it up to other editors to decide whether or not it should be linked to. - James Foster 15:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Sometime ago I mention your software in the spanish rotoscope article.