User talk:RossPatterson

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Welcome to my talk page. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

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Thanks,
Ross

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[edit] Archiveurl, etc. for {{Citation}}

Hi,

Thanks for getting to this and for asking me to participate a bit. I thought it better to respond here than on the template's talk page.

Don't stint your holidays for this on my account. As long as it's in the pipeline, I can wait for it. Enjoy.

I did take a quick look -- two comments:

  1. If either (1)url or (2){ chapter-url | chapterurl | contribution-url } is taken from an archive, the other is likely to be taken from an archive as well. besides an archiveurl parameter, wouldn't archive-chapter-url (etc.) be needed as well?
  2. If either archivedate or accessdate is required to be wikilinked, shouldn't the other be required to be treated similarly?

Cheers, Happy holidays. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Good points. I've added archive-chapter-url, archivechapterurl, and archive-contribution-url, and I've unlinked archivedate. I don't care for the latter because it's inconsitent with other citation templates, but Citation is the only citation template that doesn't link accessdate, so it's consistently-inconsistent :-) RossPatterson (talk) 06:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, I think I'm done. The prototype at User:RossPatterson/Citation and User:RossPatterson/Citation/core looks good to me and passes all the examples from {{Citation}} plus a few new ones (see User:RossPatterson/Citation/tests for the full set including results). If you agree, I'll update Citation's talk page and let the world have a crack at it before asking for the template to be changed. RossPatterson (talk) 19:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about the slow response -- I missed seeing this on 30 Dec.
I'd suggest making error messages more visible. Examples:
  • Error thrown by cite.php: Cite error: Invalid <ref> tag;

invalid names, e.g. too many

My test cases which should succeed:
let me skip two simpler cases and go straight to this one:
The two simpler cases which I skipped both have apparent problems. They are:
I didn't mention archivedate above, and it looks to me as if there is a problem there. It seems likely to me that at some point a case will be encountered where archive-url and archive-contribution-url will come from different archives (which case is handled) and/or from different archive dates (which case, AFAICS, is not handled).
-- Boracay Bill (talk) 07:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm loath to do anything about the error messages, as the visual impact of the error messages became a big deal over on {{cite web}}, and consistency is a good thing. On the cases that look wrong, there are some I can work with (specifically the choice of links and rendering of "archived from ..." links) and some I can't ("Chapter, in Work" vs. "Chapter, Work"). RossPatterson (talk) 00:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
On the error messages, maybe it's just me; I miss seeing too many error messages when they are mixed with other output without any visual distinguishment. I've found the highly visible error messages from cite.php very helpful in spotting to-be-fixed errors in articles. The {{Error:must_be_substituted}} template also produces highly visible error messages.
On the formatting of citations, I know that various conflicting style manuals exist covering such things and that WP generally leans towards CMS. I don't have a copy of CMS or any other style manuals, so I won't nitpick your style choices -- please consider any comments by me on citation style to be uninformed.
Commenting further on the possible case where the archiveurl and archive-chapter-url have different archive dates, I'm thinking that processing-wise archivedate should be the default for both, with archive-chapter-date overriding that default there if specified. Users could enter just archivedate if both have the same date, and could enter both dates if they differ. Cite-display-format-wise the dates make for lots of messy clutter. I took the easy way out on that in the para above, though, saying that I'm uninformed on citation style and won't nitpick. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
(added comment re error messages format) I hadn't thought to look at this previously, but I now see that cite.php formats its error messages with <strong class="error">...</strong>. That strikes me as both good and defensible. I'm not much of a css hacker, but isn't it possible for individual logged-in users to override that by editing Special:Mypage/monobook.css? (or should that be Special:Mypage/Monobook.css?) -- Boracay Bill (talk) 02:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
(further added comment re error messages format) The following works for me in Special:Mypage/monobook.css (not Special:Mypage/Monobook.css) to cause css class "error" (e.g. errors thrown by cite.php) appear as normal-looking text:
.error {
        color: black;
        font-size: 100%;
        font-weight: normal;
}
-- Boracay Bill (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
(more re error messages format) Just mentioning that I did some fiddling with related text formatting templates yesterday, and it's easy to format error messages like {{Citation}} error: error description in css class=error so that logged-in users can de-emphasize them by editing their monoblock.css files as mentioned above. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 06:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

For the record, this work dead-ended when an unrelated debate broke out on Template talk:Citation that convinced me it would never be accepted. RossPatterson (talk) 17:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Herndon seal.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Herndon seal.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 18:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Freedomware edit

Hello Ross,

You recently removed an edit that I made to the Free Software page in regards to Freedomware by marking it as spam. I honestly do not understand why my edit was removed and how it is considered to be spam.

Some background: At the University of British Columbia in 1999 RMS used the term at a presentation he gave entitled "Freedomware - The GNU/Linux system and the free software movement."

Most recently it has come to be used as a means by which to easily explain to non-coders how FOSS can benefit them in their everyday life. Please see Freedomware Blog, Freedomware-Gamefest A quick search of Nuxified.org for Freedomware also shows that others beside myself are using this term as well with no urging from me. I first used the term in a blog about promoting FOSS to the general public and why it works so well. It was a tongue and cheek word that really struck a chord with a few people. I was surprised because I thought I was going to get flamed alive for introducing yet another term in light of the ongoing Taxonomy war over FOSS names.

In fact someone sent RMS a link to freedomware-gamefest.com and freedomware.name which sparked an email exchange between him and Danijel(libervisco). Mr. Stallman took some of his own time to verify with the FSF legal department that we would not get sued over using the term freedomware publicly. When asked if he would endorse it he replied that he is interested in our effort and will be keeping an eye on our progress. I figured that was better than NO "you smeller of other peoples bottoms!" :)

So I hope this sheds some light on the new usage of the term Freedomware and validates my addition to the Free Software page under Alternative terms for free software. If a specific page was available for the term Freedomware I would have written about it there. But seeing as how a search for Freedomware returns Free Software at 100% relevancy and by hitting the Go button redirects you to that page it seemed like a safe place to add it.

I am always seeking to learn and grow so if I went about adding Freedomware to the page incorrectly I would like to know what I did wrong so I will not repeat my mistake.

I look forward to your response. Thank you for your time.

Land0 (talk) 19:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It's SPAM becuase you're promoting your own blog, and Wikipedia frowns on that. Unless of course you're trying to promote the Nudikini (the top Google hit for "freedomware" is http://www.nudi.com), which would still be SPAM, but of a different kind :-) RossPatterson (talk) 23:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello again. :)
Ok I can understand why the link to the freedomware.name blog as a reference that I added was removed. But I still fail to see why adding a definition of the term freedomware as an alternative term for Free Software could be considered spam. Or would it be better to have provided the nuxified forum as an unbiased third party source for the term freedomware at the bottom of the page? Ultimately I am asking what needs to be done on my part for this new use for the term Freedomware to be added to wikipedia?
Thanks again.
Land0 (talk) 06:07, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
P.S. The nudikini just seemed to be such a perfects fit to the whole paradigm[rim shot]. Now if proprietary software would just return a top link of chastity belt. doh!
The thing to do is to wait for "freedomware" to actually become a reasonably popular alternative term for free/open source software. 41 hits at a targeted search engine, all but 4 of them from a single user, and then all but 5 about one gamefest does not make "freedomware" a notable term. Sorry! RossPatterson (talk) 03:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
That makes perfectly good sense. Thank you for taking your time to explain this. No need to say sorry. It just means that we will need to work on it. Thanks again. :)
Land0 (talk) 03:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free media (Image:Cat Stevens Matthew and Son.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Cat Stevens Matthew and Son.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 22:14, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't an orphaned image, the article had been vandalized a few hours earlier, deleting the image reference. It's been fixed. But wow, that's pretty fast - you might want to slow the bot down. RossPatterson (talk) 23:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Etiquette

Well done, Ross! Get's heated down there, doesn't it!? Best wishes to you. – Noetica♬♩ Talk 02:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. My mommy would not have been very proud of that comment, regardless of whether it was true or not. RossPatterson (talk) 02:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] auto-dudlinking of dates

Ross—What need I do to persuade you of the folly of your position in support of this technical blight on the project? Tony (talk) 09:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You can't. Dates are something the world can't seem to agree on, and almost all software adapts to the user's preference for how they should be displayed. There's no reason Wikipedia should be different. RossPatterson (talk) 01:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for refs-cleanup

.... in Booting. I've found it very hard to find out where these tempates are documented.

Mike mfc (talk) [stupid 'bot' .. that information is in history if needed.]

[edit] Portal:Free software/Intro

Regarding your reversions above, I'd appreciate some attempt to open discussion. You're really just forcing your opinion through, without taking the matter to my user talk page, or the page's talk page. It's not the optimal conditions for editing, and I'd appreciate a change in the future. Anthøny 00:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Straw poll to merge "Alternative terms for free software" to "Free and open source software"

Can you please comment at Talk:Alternative_terms_for_free_software#Survey. Thanks. --Karnesky (talk) 18:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Preuss School IPA

Hey, over at the Preuss School FA you suggested that I add an IPA guide to the article. However, to be completely honest, I have no idea about how to do such. If you would be willing to do it, though, I can tell you that the school rhymes with 'choice'. Warm regards, SorryGuy  Talk  04:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GERS

Hello Ross Patterson: I hope this entry doesn't fall on deaf ears. Please help me solve the delema I seem to be having with my entry. After all, "our strong band can ne'er be broken'. Couldn't you possibly check 'The Indicator' for my name and photo in the graduation class of '65. My name Robert Gerson and photo are also listed with the Pegleg track team of that year. I recorded with Jimi Hendrix in 1970 on 'The Cry Of Love' album under the name of GERS and the album, went Gold and was on three different record labels. (Warner Bros., Polydor, and Track Records). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gersracing (talk • contribs) 23:10, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd love to, but it's a four hour drive to the nearest collection of Indicators. If you had that interesting a career, you must have been mentioned in at least one music history/criticism/whatever book or article. References don't need to be on the web, they just need to be identifiable and verifiable. RossPatterson (talk) 01:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Gersracing (talk) 21:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC) Hello Ross: Hopefully you received a copy of the 1)1965 Indicator senior class. 2)Jimi Hendrix album 'The Cry of Love' with the credits Gers (Harmonica). 3)Letter from Hohner Harmonica c/o the American Embassey in London England awaiting new Jimi Hendrix Album and asking Gers for pictures of himself playing. 4)Article in Rolling Stone about Gers' band 'Privilege'. Gers (bass guitar, harmonica) Mainstay of group, 'Umble yet 'eavy. 'Bass Player of the gods'. Born in Southern England. Picked up music from the womb. Avid blues recrd collector (2,000 blues LP's). Acquired his first harmonica at age 4 at a Rockaway Playland penny arcade near the beach. Practiced 14 hours a day until his mouth bled. Gers was the first and last mod Bohemian blues rocker from the Village. Played and jammned with Dylan, Lovin' Spoonful, Cream, James Cotton, Muddy Waters, Jimmy James & the Flames, Jimi Hendrix, among others. Split to England, met up with Jimi again and recorded several albums with him, the most famous "Cry of Love". When Jimi left us, formed group with Mitch Mitchell, played Speasy, Roundhouse Country Club, Marquee, etc. 3 - Piece Power Band. Then Played with Jack Bruce, Dick Heckstall Smith, Chris Farlowe, Buddy Miles, Felix Parpalardi and Elvin Bishop. Gers then made the organic scene in Mill Valley where-he teamed up with the S.F. Sound Makers, Boz Skaggs, Bishop, John Mayall, etc. Split to Jamaica, learned beats mon, and came back reggae oriented with a ska bass beat unduplicated by none. Gers, a living legend, surviving 2 near fatal car crashes, from the Fillmore West to Surrey England. Goal in life: to be one of the privileged. 5)Picture of GERS' credits on the Gold Jimi Hendrix Album 'Cry of Love'.

[edit] Preuss IPA redux

Hey, I hate to be a nuisance, but the Preuss School FA nomination was closed, as discussed above. When closed, you asking for an IPA was one of the last things to be done. If you have the time, could you please assist me here? Thank you, SorryGuy  Talk  19:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. RossPatterson (talk) 02:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. SorryGuy  Talk  03:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question

I noticed that you revert vandalism, occasionally but well. Would you like rollback to help you revert vandalism more quickly? Acalamari 21:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, yes, I would. RossPatterson (talk) 21:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Rollback granted. :) Just remember that it's only for vandalism-reversion. For more information on rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. Good luck! Acalamari 22:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Yup, understood. I've been to those pages already. RossPatterson (talk) 23:04, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
You're welcome! Acalamari 02:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] thanx

Thanks for fixing the reference for the steven spielberg article. I have some trouble with that.--Dlo2012 (talk) 00:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

De nada. Citations "Я" Us :-) RossPatterson (talk) 01:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BoxCrawler

Thanks for letting me know, but the space and newline removals are, while slightly annoying, very useful both to the project and the bot, it should be a one-time issue as none of these changes should be necessary again. I'm sorry that the edits caused a problem. Adam McCormick (talk) 06:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Factwhen

Is this banned user. A ban is a ban. He keeps coming back, there is nothing to do but revert. Slrubenstein | Talk 21:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Sorry to have misunderstood! RossPatterson (talk) 21:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

No prob! Slrubenstein | Talk 21:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lexington Park, MD μSA

Actually both are factually incorrect, since the topic resolves to a location which happens to have the closest association with the μSA, but is not the same. Tedickey (talk) 17:07, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but Lexington Park, MD μSA is just a redirect to St. Mary's County, Maryland, whereas Lexington Park, MD is an actual article. RossPatterson (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
There are two points here: (a) the μSA is the county associated with the rural town, and (b) neither topic develops the μSA aspect. If there were a suitable topic written, it would be better to start with the right name. Tedickey (talk) 17:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
No argument from me about the latter. RossPatterson (talk) 17:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
hmm - I said three things ((a) and (b) in one sentence, followed by a recommendation - presumably that's the "latter"). Is it that you might agree with those, but have some additional reason? Using the μSA name seemed like one step forward to fixing the things wrong with the WMA topic Tedickey (talk) 17:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Infobox Weather additions

Hi, I usually just go to weather.com and look up the info there for the cities. I could copy and paste the links, but I am not sure where to put them. Should I include them at the bottom of the template, or at the bottom of the page? If you know how to do this, please let me know! Thanks, (Einstein00 (talk) 18:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC))

Whatever you're cutting-and-pasting into the articles contains the following, down near the bottom:
<ref name=worldweather >{{cite web | url = | title = | accessmonthday = | accessyear = | publisher = | language = }}</ref>
So just put the URL after | url = and the title from the page the URL points to after | title = . RossPatterson (talk) 18:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
OK. That doesn't seem to be too difficult. Should I then leave the rest blank, like "title" or "language"? Thanks,
(Einstein00 (talk) 17:24, 2 March 2008 (UTC))
You need to supply at least the URL and the title. The more you can add, the better, but that's the minimum. RossPatterson (talk) 17:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I just checked and I can't find that thing anywhere. You said that it should be at the bottom of the page, right? Well, it's not there. I don't know if someone removed it or what, but if nothing else, I can just add the link in brackets after the data. (Einstein00 (talk) 17:38, 2 March 2008 (UTC))

I saw that you removed the empty reference. That's ok. I can add it back, and then I will cite it. Have a good day, (Einstein00 (talk) 17:40, 2 March 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Acessyear

Yes, you're absolutely right. But because people regularly put the full date in one field, it seems sense. Rich Farmbrough, 22:41 12 March 2008 (GMT).

[edit] Stuyvesant FAR

Stuyvesant High School has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Five Years (talk • contribs) 00:34, 19 March 2008

[edit] Frank Albinder

Thanks for catching my goof on the cite web for Frank Albinder. Tjarrett (talk) 01:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

De nada. The template drops errors into Category:Articles with broken citations, I just cruise through the list from time to time. RossPatterson (talk) 02:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Notability (schools) edit

I guess I got a sudden rush of adrenalin and a desire to follow WP:BOLD and WP:IAR in an attempt to bring some levity to the recent heated discussions about the notability of schools. It had the desired effect, although calling it pointless vandalism seems a bit harsh. It is, after all, a perfectly legitimate criterion that all notable schools article satisfy. No harm was intended. Truthanado (talk) 00:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

FYI, I didn't call it that, or revert it. RossPatterson (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, that comment wasn't aimed at you. That is the edit summary in the revert, and I know it wasn't you that did the revert. Good editing. Truthanado (talk) 03:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Beyoncé Knowles

Thanks for fixing the missing info. I was about to add them but your done already. =) --Efe (talk) 01:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

No sweat, I wast trolling for busted citations and saw it. Cheers! RossPatterson (talk) 02:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
=) --Efe (talk) 03:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] It used to be Christiana

I saw the near edit-war on brandywine Creek and was a bit puzzled. If it helps any, the river was named after Queen Christiana of Sweden (although see Christina of Sweden - I'm giving up!)and I think that's even a modern variant, but the name almost everybody uses is Christina River. Smallbones (talk) 21:58, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't a war, I was simply wrong. I've driven through that stretch of Delaware often enough that I thought I knew the right answer. In fact, I thought I'd seen the sign just a couple of days before. But references always trump eyeballs! RossPatterson (talk) 17:15, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Garbage (band) edit

Just to let you know I found and changed your recent edit to this page because the band and album in the converted cite were reversed. Kresock (talk) 01:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! RossPatterson (talk) 02:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ShepBot

Sorry for the delay in response.


Hello, RossPatterson. You have new messages at Stepshep's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} template.

§hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Utility" pattern

Hi Ross, where did you find the "Utility" design pattern you reverted in "Design Pattern" page? Do you have any links or bibliographical reference to it? --Janesconference (talk) 08:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I was just finishing the vandalism repair that you started. It appears to have been added by Errandir about two months ago. If you meant to delete it, I'm not opposed. RossPatterson (talk) 11:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)