Talk:Ronaldo/Archive 2

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 This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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Contents

Last club paragraph

I deleted this because it was somewhat too detailed and unnecessary, as well as consisting of improper statements ("Suprisingly, Real Madrid lost"). Peoplesunionpro 19:18, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

another thing is the bold statement the 'He is regarded as one of the greatest players to have played the game: an opinion of whoever write it!

Ronaldo's problems

Why did someone delete every thing that portrayed him negatively. We are not super humans without problems. The article was well written citing web links about Ronaldo's psychological problems that even exist at the present world cup. I think we are here to read current and pass afairs about people and deleting any thing negative but true, i find that disgusting. Pretending that Ronaldo has no problem will not help him in any way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.195.185.190 (talk • contribs) 07:37, June 20, 2006

that was fast...

its amazing how fast like 4 people went to edit the Ronaldo page to update how he tied the WC goals scored record

RideABicycle 20:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, his record will only last 4 years. At current pace, Klose will pass him in 2010.

Norum 29.06.2006

Not really, Klose will be 32, and likely retired and replaced. Philc TECI 23:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed

Dude, you're right! That was insanely fast updated!

E.Cortez 21:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC-3)

International Caps and Goals

The international caps and goals listed twice on this page were both incorrect, according to FIFA's World Cup 2006 website. [1]. I therefore changed the information. I am however, a little suspicious of the caps figure, can anyone else confirm it?--Jackyd101 01:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Won the 1994 World Cup?

Now I understand that he was in the squad, and therefore was probably given a medal, but I think it's a bit much to imply in any way that he helped the team to this victory if he didn't play a single minute! aLii 13:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

He's on the roster, he's a world cup winner, end of story. Batman2005 19:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
This is a long-going debate among fans and writers. One thing I always found funny was how certain fans would credit Ronaldo with being champion in 1994, but would not credit, for example, Franco Baresi for being in the roster in 1982 or Daniel Passarella in 1986. And even 'funnier' is that FIFA now recognizes these players' as winners in those tournaments, but never bothered to do so before Ronaldo and the 1994 world cup. The point is that just being on the roster wasn't enough to be eligible for the list of champions, and this seemed to be the consensus before the Ronaldo era. Then there seemed to be a certain urgency out there to ensure that everyone hears he was 'part of the squad'. Did anyone else out there notice this? I can't find, however, a FIFA source stating what the requirements are for a player to be recognized as world cup winner, or when these requirements were established. ChaChaFut 00:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
You won't find a "FIFA Source" talking about requirements for being called a world cup winner. It matters not if the player played a single minute of the tournament, they were a part of a world cup winning team, therefore they are world cup winners. There's no reason to debate that point and if people are they are foolish. Each player on the team, be it the starting center midfielder or the 3rd team goalkeeper are important parts of the team and only one play away from either being in or out of the game. There's no plausible reason why we'd say Baresi or Passarella weren't champions...they are! If people are saying they're not, then those people are foolish. Simply put, Ronaldo was on the roster in 1994, therefore in 1994 he was a world cup champion. It's the same with Kasey Keller...this was his fourth world cup...only the second that he actually played in, but he was in 4 world cups. Batman2005 01:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Overweight?

In the article, there is a statement that his is overweight. My problem with it is that it is definative in the present tense. Isn't that conjecture or even just opinion. Unless you've weighed he and calculated his BMI, isn't this just wrong? 212.159.117.243 23:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC) B1ackcr0w

Crap

Who cares about what a crappy manager called Martin Oneill says? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahaha1 (talk • contribs)

Why do you think your opinion is more important than professional experts? Have you been editing this article to reflect your opinion like you did to the Thierry Henry article?  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  01:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh , so if the comments of Martin O Neill are soo necessary on a biography of ronaldo , why dont you put in the comments on Ronaldo of greater professionals like Paolo Maldini or even Ronaldinho or Zidane ? Is the reason that you dont put their comments on Ronaldo in the article primarily because those comments are positive while Martin o Neil's comment is derogatory ?

Some random comment by some random manager who had a few stints in England automatically gets printed in a biography on Ronaldo ? What an Bumhole !!

Might as well take the comments of the manager of some MLS team and also put it in this article .

Hahahaha1 21:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Ronaldo Luíz Nazário de Lima

Shouldn't this article be moved to Ronaldo Luíz Nazário de Lima and Ronaldo will automatically be redirected to it as this is his correct and full name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yonatanh (talk • contribs) 08:42, June 26, 2006

It's generally preferred to use people's common name when titling articles. eg. Pelé  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  13:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Like suggested before, I also think "Ronaldo" should redirect to the disambiguation page. This Ronaldo will retire some day, and people will be more interested in reading about Portugese Cristiano_Ronaldo. Medico80 16:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there a link to how\why it's "generally preferred"? Yonatanh 21:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I just looked; I don't think there is. There is an article Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people), which should really have a policy on Brazilians, but WP:NC says:Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  03:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Wrong Name

The given name "Ronaldo Luíz" is wrong. The orthography of the name in Portuguese should be either "Luís" (with accute accent, ending with "s") or "Luiz" (no accent, with a "z"), but never "Luíz". (See, for example, the talk page on Lula.) --HYC 14:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Scoring record

From the article: "The difference is that it took him three World Cups while Müller did it in just two.". Is this really necessary? How does it contribute? Hardwick 15:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Scoring at least three goals in three world cups

With his third goal of the 2006 World Cup, Ronaldo became only the second player ever (Klinsmann being the other) to score at least three goals in each of three world cups, a sign of consistency at the top level. I added this info to the article, but then it was removed with the point of view that it is not a notable record. Fine with me if that is the consensus (?). But what if he scores again? He will become the only player in history to score at least four goals in each of three world cups. (4, 8, and 4 in 1998, 2002 and 2006 respectively). Will it suddenly make a difference and become a noteworthy statistic? Thanks in advance for your opinion. ChaChaFut 03:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who deleted it but I'm not really against it so if you think it's okay and\or you get a consensus then go ahead and change it back. Yonatanh 03:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm on the opinion that it's already notable, and may be re-included. --Abu Badali 04:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Birgit Prinz?

This will probably be construed as a sexist remark, but I would think female soccer is a different sport from male soccer, and so I don't get why Ronaldo's record is compared to that of a female soccer player? Is it appropriate?--24.82.175.172 04:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Birgit Prinz has won the FIFA World Shagger of the Year award three times as well, so saying that only Ronaldo and Zidane have done it three times is false. Just because she is a woman doesn't cheapen the fact that she has also done it. I understand that european soccer for women is not a huge deal, but it would be sexist to leave her out, as well as inaccurate since she has also won it 3 times. Batman2005 21:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I've edited the article to reflect her awards, but also that the women's and men's awards are different things. --Guinnog 17:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Good thinking, my thing is, why mention other players at all? And if we're going to mention Zidane then for the sake of being fair, Prinz also needs to be mentioned. They're ALL 3 times winners, just because some people hold an archaic thought that women shouldn't be mentioned in the same article as men in football, doesn't make her accomplishment less noteworthy. At the very least we need to say that he and Zidane have won 3 mens awards, or just mention Ronaldo if we're not also mentioning everyone else who has won 3, including Prinz. I'd also like to point out that on [2] in the second paragraph it lists Zidane, Ronaldo and Prinz in the same sentence as all 3 time winners, no distinction is made there that Prinz's accomplishment is less because she's a woman, to say that it is simply comes down to sexism. Batman2005 21:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

ok, where do i start? firstly, were you guys even gonna include me in this conversation. firstly, womens and mens soccer is different, mens soccer is more competitive and a bigger sport. secondly, they are different awards, different people compete to win them, women compete against women and men against men. it is factually wrong to say that prinz (never even heard of her by the way) has equalled ronaldo cos its a different award. its relevant to say that zidane has cos its the same award. also who really cares that a woman has won 3, its not relevant when evaluating RONALDO'S career. however saying that zidane has also done it, puts the achievement into perspective and also shows that they are both two of the greatest players ever and that zidane and ronaldo are the best of their era. i am not sexist, but its irrelevant, we dont care that she has done it cos it is not relevant to ronaldo and is a separate award. hope that sorts out the stupid dispute. --Bucsrsafe 22:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


Firstly, this conversation has been here for several days (see my post from June 5th, the first time I re-inserted the information in the article I posted it here for discussion, YOU removed it several times without coming on here to discuss, you chose to do so again several more times without discussing on here, so it would appear that you chose not to include yourself. Secondly, you can't say that mens is more competitive than womens, that's clearly your POV. I'd also like to point out that the page I referenced above does not distinguish between the achievements, it says that Zidane, Ronaldo and Prinz are all 3 time winners of the award. It IS the same award, they award one each year to a man and a woman. Much like when you win the NCAA basketball tournament, a mens team and a womens team wins, in college soccer the hermann trophy is awarded to a man and a woman, this is no different. I'd also like to clarify that YOU do not care that she has done it, but I do. These pages are not simply about you, they are about the community, which is why I posted this on here to discuss. Additionally, i think reading WP:CIVIL would benefit you a great deal, saying a dispute is "stupid" is not a way to get others to lend credence to your argument. My point is this. Either we say all people who have won the award 3 times, regardless of sex. Or we make no mention of it at all, we say that Ronaldo won it three times and leave it at that. To include ONLY Zidane is sexist, whether you like it or not, leaving Prinz out simply because she's a woman is sexist. Batman2005 22:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether you include it or not, but it matters how. If Zidane is mentioned, it is harmless and educative that you also include Prinz's achievement, but you also must mention that she is in a different category, e.g.: "Ronaldo has won the FIFA World Player of the Year Award 3 times, a mark he shares with frenchman Zinedine Zidane (Birgit Prinz, in women's football, has also won the award three times). ChaChaFut 22:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

sorry, it just doesnt matter that she won it cos its not relevant to ronaldo, zidane's achievement is cos its the same actual award for men, it shows that ronaldo is in elite company and is a player of his generation like zidane. prinz's achievement doesnt matter, it is not relevant, put it in a womens article, cos it has no place in reference to ronaldo's career. call me sexist, if you want, but it just isnt relevant. --Bucsrsafe 22:53, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

We're not calling you sexist, your actions are demonstrating that. You don't want it mentioned specifically because she is a woman and its "not the same award." But it IS the same award, one for me, one for women, all are the FIFA World Player of the Year. Is Prinz not in elit company? is she not a player of her generation the same as Zidane and Ronaldo? Does she not get that consideration because she's a woman? Is a woman who wins Wimbledon 4 times less than a man who wins it twice? Is a woman who wins the Hermann Award in college soccer less than a man who wins the award? No, they're not. Prinz's accomplishment is the same as Zidane and Ronaldo, she was chosen for the award 3 times, just like those two. If we're mentioning the record in the article, she must be mention otherwise the article is not neutral and is male biased. Batman2005 23:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The awards cannot be compared fairly, Ronaldo is not elligble for the award Prinz won, and visa versa, there is absolutely no comparison whatsoever. Its like saying UEFA champions league MVP is equal to his oceania equivalent, its just not the case. Its not a matter of gender, its a matter of elligebility. Philc TECI 23:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

It is a matter of Gender, if there was a womens UEFA champions league then your argument would have been better. It is the "World Player of the Year" award, given to 1 man and 1 woman. The achievement of the man is not better simply because he is a man, the achievement of the woman is not lessened simply because she is a woman. To say that it is is simply sexist. If we're mentioning that Ronaldo and Zidane hold the record for winning 3 times, then to be neutral we must also mention Prinz. If we don't want to mention Prinz, then we should also not mention Zidane. Batman2005 23:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
No the man did not necesarily acheive more, but as he cannot take both awards, the woman did not necesarily equal or better him by taking the womans award. If every man in the world was better than every woman, the winner of the womans award would not be on level terms with the winner of the mans award. Its an extreme example, but its a way to explain the standards are different. Philc TECI 23:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

yes i agree with the user above, they are different awards. also, yes, i am semi saying that if a woman wins the award, its not the same. they have less competition in womens football and it is much easier to win it 3 times as a woman, than a man because of the competition in mens football. they are just not comparable, because zidane and ronaldo are competing against each other, not with prinz, who is competiting with less players of her quality. also as for your poor tennis analogy, yes, a woman who wins wimbledon 4 times is much less than a man who does it. last time i checked, it was much harder to win a mens slam, they play 2 more sets than women and its physically more draining, plus they hit the ball harder and play more physically. thats why there shouldnt be equal pay cos they dont play the same, but thats a different issue. prinz's achievement is not relevant.--Bucsrsafe 23:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


^^^^ ALL of that is subjective! None of it is a relevant argument. You can't say that there is less competition, to the women in their game it is as competitive as it is to the men in theirs. To the women it is not easy to win the award 3 times. You're continuously showing your bias towards including women on the same stage as men by saying that a woman who wins wimbledon is less noteworthy than a man who does, all of that is subjective. The fact is, any mention of the record should include ALL people who have won it three times, or simply saying that Ronaldo has won it three times without mentioning other players at all. Batman2005 23:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
  • As an outsider observer, I just want to offer this example. Duke_Blue_Devils#Coach_K_era "the only team to win three national championships since the NCAA Tournament field was expanded to 64 teams" it states in there. Note it doesn't mention the fact that UConn won 4 NCAA Women's national titles since their field expanded to 64 or Tennessee who had the same accomplishment in the women's division. This is just the first example I could find but I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anything that has men and women's competitions compared as it has been suggested for this article. Metros232 23:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I already proposed my compromise in the article. I suggest it again here.
He was named by Pelé as one of the top 125 greatest living footballers in March 2004. Ronaldo has enjoyed success at the international level, winning the 1994 and 2002 FIFA World Cups with Brazil. Ronaldo has also won three FIFA World Player of the Year awards (1996, 1997 and 2002), a men's record that has since been equalled by his Real Madrid teammate Zinedine Zidane. Birgit Prinz of Germany won her third women's title in 2005.

--Guinnog 23:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Then the Duke page should say that they are the only team to win three mens national championships. I'm ok with this page saying that Ronaldo has won "3 MENS FIFA world player of the year awards a record that has since been equaled by Zinedine Zidane." Because then it clearly states that the article is ONLY referring to the mens portion of the award. You'll notice that it was that way before Bucsrsafe removed it. I'm fine with what Guinnog propsed, but it too was removed by Bucsrsafe because as he says "nobody cares about womens football." Batman2005 23:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
But we know inherently that the award is referring to the men's player of the year award because it's quite obvious that Ronaldo is ineligible for the women's award. This is why the Duke article doesn't not need to mention that it was the men's championship because we know that the men's basketball team can't win the women's championship. Metros232 23:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

no dont agree, we are talking about men's soccer, not womens soccer. i agree with the user:metros person. no other articles intertwine mens and womens version of sports. how about we put that ronaldo won it 3 times and that zinedine zidane also matched that and say that the award was the male world player of the year cos it seems that people object if women are not included even tho that womens soccer just isnt really cared about. --Bucsrsafe 23:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

cummon, when you think about soccer and world player of the year, who thinks about womens soccer, i dont and not that many people do i reckon. if you say world player of the year, i immediately think of mens football cos it is primarily a men's sport. if we need to distinguish and say the men's award, then the world has gone sexism mad. --Bucsrsafe 23:36, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


YOU immediately think of mens football, wikipedia is not about YOU. It's about the community, you can't say that zidane and ronaldo are the only players to win the award 3 times because its not true, Prinz has also done it. Which is why you need to state that there is an award for men and women, by saying they've won the mens award three times or by saying Prinz won the women's award three times. Both were in the article, both were removed by Bucsrsafe because HE doesn't care about women's football. Some sort of distinction needs to be made to say that there is an award for the women, and that somebody there has also won it three times. Or, just forget the whole thing and remove any mention of other players winning the award and just state that Ronaldo won it three times. Batman2005 23:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

people assume, they dont think, oh i wonder how many times a woman has done it, they think who else in the mens game has done it because that is relevant. how is it relevant to ronaldo's career that some random german woman has also won the award 3 times. --Bucsrsafe 23:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Batman, we are supposed to be working towards a consensus, you are not working towards a consensus, you are just arguing, stubbornly, for your initial point. Both sides will have to give and take a bit for this to work. Philc TECI 23:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL, my football head is making me agree with you, Bucrsafe, and my liberal socialist head is making me agree with Batman!
Would anyone have a serious problem with adopting the compromise I suggested? We mention the woman's record holder, while making clear it is a separate category? --Guinnog 23:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeh, I'd go for that compromise, it seems fine to me. Thoug how about "He was named by Pelé as one of the top 125 greatest living footballers in March 2004. Ronaldo has enjoyed success at the international level, winning the 1994 and 2002 FIFA World Cups with Brazil. Ronaldo has also won three FIFA World Player of the Year awards (1996, 1997 and 2002), a men's record that has since been equalled by his Real Madrid teammate Zinedine Zidane. Birgit Prinz of Germany acheived the same feat in womans football by winning her third women's title in 2005."Philc TECI 23:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

glad you agree with me guinnog, but i would disagree with that compromise cos its just irrelevant what prinz's achievement is in reference to ronaldo's career cos he is a man and doesnt play with women. --Bucsrsafe 23:50, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Well I certainly did and do agree, to the extent that I think Ronaldo's achievement is by far the more noteworthy, but I also see Batman's point that this is an encyclopedia, and we should not be so snobbily sexist that we dare not name the women's holder in the same breath as the man's.
A compromise is, by definition, something that everybody is unhappy a little unhappy with. The point is, can you live with this compromise? Failing that, can you suggest a better one? --Guinnog 00:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Phil, Look three of four posts above where I said that I was ok with mentioning Zidane if we assert that its the mens award. If anyone is "arguing stubbornly" its bucsrsafe, who is simply rehashing his initial argument that "its not relevant because nobody cares about women's football." Posting that they won the "mens award three times" is in my opinion right right way to go. Don't say i'm subbornly arguing my point, i'm the one who brought it here in the first place to be discussed, i'm not the one who blindly reverted it time and again (bucsrsafe) when the disucssion was here all along, then complained that he wasn't included in it. I've said what I think is an acceptable compromise, compromise is essential here, Bucs is thus far unwilling to compromise...so who's being stubborn now? Yeah. Batman2005 23:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Alright, fair enough, maybe it was an unfair comment. But you are being a bit abrasive. Philc TECI 00:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

i just say that we say that ronaldo has won it 3 times and so has zidane. thats it, thats what the main page should say, cos nobody is gonna think when they read that, what did the womens person do? who thinks thats fine? --Bucsrsafe 00:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

"Ronaldo and Zinedine Zidane are the only two men to have won the award three times." When I read the ronaldo article the first time I said "wait, no, some woman won it three times, i saw it on ESPN. So by saying they're the only two MEN to win it three times, the statement is true and leaves the reader to determine that a woman has probably also done it. Batman2005 00:03, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

cummon, 95% of people who watch football will say that when they read that, they wont even think an ounce about whether a woman might have done it. --Bucsrsafe 00:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, can't we mention it, for the minority (if your contention is right; women may occasionally read the article though, so I don't agree it's a 5% minority)? --Guinnog 00:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

i would say that the only way this gets settled is if we say that zidane has equalled ronaldo's record and say that this is the men's player of the year, i dont think we need to say that prinz did it. --Bucsrsafe 00:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily, like guinnog said we can't be so stubbornly sexist that we're afraid to make a distinction between mens and womens football. Some distinction needs to be made, be it simply saying that they're the only two men to win the award twice, or mentioning Prinz outright. You claim that nobody cares about womens football, yet I cared enough to start this discussion, people here obviously care enough to try to work out a compromise, etc. Yet you're unwilling to compromise at all on the situation. Batman2005 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

i suggested a compromise above. --Bucsrsafe 00:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

That's not a compromise, that's what the article says now, what you edited it down to without discussing on here first. Batman2005 00:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

no it is a compromise, i am saying i wont edit it anymore if it says that ronaldo won the mens version 3 times and so did zidane with no reference to prinz.--Bucsrsafe 00:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah ok, then how does this version sound. "Ronaldo has won three FIFA World Player of the Year awards (1996, 1997, 2002). Ronaldo and Real Madrid teammate Zidane are the only two men to have won the award three times." Batman2005 00:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

yeah i love that actually, that sounds really good, well done. --Bucsrsafe 00:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright, you wanna put it in, i'm probably gonna get banned for the 3RR [3] on this page so i'd rather not make anymore changes to it. Batman2005 00:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

yeah i can do it. by the way, we would have to put former infront of Real Madrid teammate given that Zidane is now retired. glad to have worked this out in a fairly civilized manner. by the way, are you a man or a woman? just interests me. --Bucsrsafe 00:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm a guy, my username "Batman" is cause my parents actually named me "Bruce Wayne _____" (obviously i won't post my last name), friggin jerks. Batman2005 00:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

i would have thought you were a woman with your views, but hey, doesnt matter, thats a funny name tho. cya. --Bucsrsafe 00:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I stuck Batman's compromise onto the article. We all deserve a round of applause for settling it amicably and in a civilised manner. Well done. --Guinnog 00:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Nah, not a woman, most of the discussions I get into on here are to prove points, like the importance of distinguishing between men and women, while not leaving either out. I'm just glad we got it sorted out before i get blocked for the 3RR thing, which I (if you read the page) clearly disagree with. Batman2005 00:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

"men" should not be there! it should be "players"

everyone knows they are men!


Perhaps you should read the above discussion before you make stupid posts. 74.132.172.179 20:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Knee Injuries

Removed reference to ACL (Anterior Cruciate Ligament) as a quick Google (for instance here [[4]]) seems to indicate that the first injury was to a tendon whilst there are conflicting accounts of the nature of the second injury. It's clear he had two knee injuries and hopefully that's what the article now says. Brainfood 11:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

World Cup '98

Shouldn't there be more on his performence in World Cup '98? I added some details about the fit he had the night before the final, could someone with more memories of the event expand this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by J•A•K (talk • contribs) 08:54, July 10, 2006

Football career

Not sure how to add this in but Ronaldo was originally brought to PSV by their (then) manager Bobby Robson; when Robson moved to Barcelona he brought Ronaldo to play there, (or at least got Barca to buy him from PSV). I realise this is more relevant to Robson as coach, but isn't it always interesting to know who helped the player in his career? 88.109.31.255 20:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)