Talk:Ron Weasley
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Assessment comments
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| Archive 1 |
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[edit] If WP is so strict on sourcing...
So how come the "relationships" section doesn't have a single one? Tagged it. --Ted87 07:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- I rather agree. While the information is quite on the money, it needs citation. i will wait until, say November 4th, and then i will remove the entire section to here for citation. Hopefully, that will spur people on to find the appropriate references. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 06:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- I forgot about this; I never bothered removing the tag because I figured someone else would who understood policy a little better than I do. But the way I see it, this is simply a discussion of the plot, and therefore the novels are the sources. So we could use those [HP1] type tags, but everyone seems to hate those. But as far as I can see (after a cursory glance through the section), the section doesn't include anything not stated in the books, but rather discusses plot points. Am I missing something? faithless (speak) 07:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- No, you aren't missing anything, Faithless. I think that the material takes some intuitive leaps that the books don't explicitly take. there's an evaluative quality to the writing style that clearly draws conclusions from the different Potter books en toto, and while that's not bad for a fan forum or a persuasion piece, it's utter poison here without citation. The fact that its reasonable is not enough to retain it, specifically because its a reasoned argument. It needs citations to stay. I do hope someone finds some citable sources for it. i would hate to excise it from the article. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 09:06, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- BTW Arcayne, after you left this message I started reading it a little more closely and saw what you were talking about. It's cruft, probably needs to be rewritten, that is if it goes back in at all. I'm not at all convinced it's necessary in the first place. faithless (speak) 03:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- No, you aren't missing anything, Faithless. I think that the material takes some intuitive leaps that the books don't explicitly take. there's an evaluative quality to the writing style that clearly draws conclusions from the different Potter books en toto, and while that's not bad for a fan forum or a persuasion piece, it's utter poison here without citation. The fact that its reasonable is not enough to retain it, specifically because its a reasoned argument. It needs citations to stay. I do hope someone finds some citable sources for it. i would hate to excise it from the article. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 09:06, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- I forgot about this; I never bothered removing the tag because I figured someone else would who understood policy a little better than I do. But the way I see it, this is simply a discussion of the plot, and therefore the novels are the sources. So we could use those [HP1] type tags, but everyone seems to hate those. But as far as I can see (after a cursory glance through the section), the section doesn't include anything not stated in the books, but rather discusses plot points. Am I missing something? faithless (speak) 07:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Removed section and subsections
Due to the conversation immediately above (please read it, as it might answer anticipated questions), I have decided that the section and subsections regarding relationships be removed from the article until we can cite the material better. It cannot return to the article without citation, and this means non-fan forum and bloggy material, no supposition, no 'I think', etc.
- Relationships (Unreferencedsection|date=October 2007)
- Hermione Granger
- Ron's romantic feelings for Hermione Granger are foreshadowed as early as the second book, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, though it may be argued they appear even in the first book. When Hermione is Petrified by Slytherin's monster, Ron seems most affected, and later, most relieved to know that she will make a full recovery. Hermione's absence is also enough for him to overcome his fear of spiders and confront the giant acromantula, Aragog, living in the Forbidden Forest to find out about Slytherin's monster.
- Earlier in the book, Ron tries to curse Malfoy for insulting Hermione, despite having a broken wand; the spell backfires on him, causing him to belch out slugs from his mouth. Ron's attitude towards anyone insulting Hermione continues throughout the series, which is ironic considering that Ron also seems to make the most fun of her. An example, this time in the third book, is when Ron speaks out against Professor Snape for calling Hermione a "know-it-all", something that he himself does (according to Harry) at least twice a week.
- Though Ron and Hermione's friendship until then (and indeed throughout the series) is marked by continuous bickering and argument, they have their first major falling out in the third book. In Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Ron blames Hermione for failing to control her cat who seems to have killed Ron's rat, and their estrangement intensifies when Hermione continues reprimanding Harry and Ron for their rule-breaking, to the point of getting Harry's broomstick confiscated, leading both Ron and Harry to ignore her for most of the year. It is only after Hagrid chides Ron for valuing his pets more than his friends, and expressing how worried Hermione was when Ron had been attacked by Sirius Black, coupled with her difficulty in coping with her studies and her loneliness after losing her best friends, that Ron and Hermione patch up (Hermione almost breaks down in Ron's arms).
- In Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Ron's feelings for Hermione (which were until then quite subtle) become more obvious. He has a major argument with Hermione for going with Viktor Krum to the Yule Ball, accusing her of "fraternising with the enemy". Hermione however, calls Ron's jealousy for what it is and famously tells him to "ask [her] out first, and not as a last resort" the next time there is a ball. This jealousy is reflected throughout the book when Ron gets visibly annoyed every time Krum's name is mentioned. On her part, Hermione also seems to be annoyed when Ron develops an infatuation over the gorgeous part-Veela, Fleur Delacour.
- By the fifth book, their relationship seems to have developed to the point where Ron gifts Hermione a perfume for Christmas, while Hermione wishes him luck (and tries to relieve his nerves about the upcoming Quidditch match) by kissing him on the cheek. There are also minor incidents when Ron's jealousy again comes to the fore, once when he sees Hermione writing a letter to Victor Krum ("Who are you writing the novel to?"), and again when Hermione tries to assure Harry that he wasn't a bad kisser ("How would you know?").
- Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince marks their second major falling out over the course of the series. Ron, who has learnt that Hermione had kissed Krum sometime in their fourth year, tries to get back at her by dating (or, "mostly snogging") their classmate Lavender Brown. Hermione retaliates by asking out Cormac McLaggen (a guy Ron detests), and when this fails, she goes back to cold-shouldering him, stopping only to taunt and pass cruel remarks. All this changes when Ron is almost killed by a deadly poison; Ron and Hermione become friends again, and even though it takes Ron sometime to break up with Lavender, Hermione is at least back on talking terms with him. By the end of book, Harry sees Ron comforting a crying Hermione who has her head resting on his shoulder.
- Ron and Hermione's feelings for each other are finally consummated in the last book, when they passionately kiss during the final Battle of Hogwarts, only pulling apart when Harry reminds them of the war going on around them, almost as if to get revenge on Ron for banning him from kissing his sister, Ginny. Ron is described as looking as though he's been hit on the head with a bludger. It is revealed in the epilogue that Ron and Hermione are married, and have two children, Rose and Hugo Weasley.
- Lavender Brown
- Lavender began to show signs of interest in Ron beginning in their sixth year. In the beginning Ron was either oblivious or disinterested in Lavender's obvious attraction. However, Ron soon began a relationship with Lavender following a fallout between himself and Hermione after coming close to the two admitting a mutual attraction. Ron's relationship with Lavender was short lived due to the fact he did not have much in common with Lavender and the relationship was entirely physical. After Lavender escalates her clingy ways, Ron begins to show signs of tiring of the relationship. While he is in the hospital wing recovering from being an almost deadly poisoning he fakes sleeping every time Lavender comes to visit him. Ron initiated the relationship with Lavender primarily for the purpose of making Hermione jealous (although Ginny's taunts regarding Ron's success with women did not help), which seemed to work, as Hermione made a disastrous attempt to date Cormac McLaggen, an egomaniacal seventh year who Ron heartily detested, to get revenge. Hermione appears unnerved at Ron's continuing relationship but cannot even look at Ron while he is dating Lavender, and seemed happy and lighthearted when the relationship ends.
- Others
- Ron shows signs of attraction to a number of other women throughout the series, although his attraction is almost universally for their looks. This causes Hermione to scathingly comment on numerous occasions (including his "fancy" for Madame Rosmerta, owner of the Three Broomsticks pub) on her perception that Ron is emotionally shallow. Ron has an obvious crush on Fleur Delacour due to her amazing beauty, although the attraction seems merely physical and he has displayed no signs of jealousy at the fact that Fleur is now married to his brother, Bill.
[edit] Discussion about removed section
Please commence firing. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] There's a clean-up a-coming
the article, Hermione Granger is currently a Good Article (GA) which means it has achived a level of quality that we have yet to achieve here in Ron Weasley. For example, here is the Table of Contents for this article:
:::1 Appearances
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- 1.1 Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
- 1.2 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
- 1.3 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
- 1.4 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
- 1.5 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
- 1.6 Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
- 1.7 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
- 1.7.1 Nineteen Years Later
- 1.1 Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
- 2 Attributes
- 2.1 Appearance
- 2.2 Personality
- 2.3 Magic and skill
- 2.4 Family
- 2.1 Appearance
- 3 Family tree
- 4 References
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...and here is the TOC for Hermione Granger:
:::1 Background
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- 2 Character development
- 3 Personality
- 4 Appearances
- 4.1 Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
- 4.2 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
- 4.3 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
- 4.4 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
- 4.5 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
- 4.6 Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
- 4.7 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
- 4.7.1 Epilogue
- 4.1 Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
- 5 Film portrayal
- 6 References
- 7 External links
- 2 Character development
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Note the differences? There is a decidedly less in-universe feel to just the table of contents in the GA article. I realize the the character of Hermione is a muggle and thusly has less in the way of wizardly history, but I think we really need to ask ourselves how we can finally move beyond the in-universe Crazy™ that seems to teem within the Harry Potter articles. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 04:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- I've addressed and fixed up the Epilogue part. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 04:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
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- I agree with the clean-up. Ron's article deserves a GA status as well and it is a shame that it has lots of in-universe stuff (thanks God someone removed the "relationships" section). I think that the "Family" section in the current article is all in-universe. Maybe providing a link to the Weasley family article would be better. Lord Opeth (talk) 04:51, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Protected Article
Why has this article been protected against IP addresses since August? Isn't that a bit excessive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.179.224 (talk) 19:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
