Talk:Romanov Family Association

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[edit] Russian succession dispute

Is this THE page to go through all the details of the said dispute? Should we have yet one separate article about the dispute itself? Shilkanni 00:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

No. Article 4.1 of the charter of the RFA states: "The Association must not express opinions as the rights and duties of the Members of the Association, originating from their relation to the Basic laws of the Russian Empire and the Constitution to the Imperial Family." So it is both inaccurate and improper for this organization to take any position on the legal, dynastic, or genealogical validity of claims to the Russian Imperial throne -- never mind that several editors have ignored that restriction and used the article to discuss rival pretenders, and to ascribe a POV on the succession to the organization, instead of to some of its individual members. Several legal and genealogical aspects or facts connected to the succession dispute may be relevant to various Wiki articles and biographies. But the correct place to discuss an overview of such claims would be under Russia, Romanov or, (most appropriately, Line of succession to the Russian Throne. As you might well expect, the last of these is currently bogged down in a revert-war. Lethiere 01:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Males descending from Paul I, some categories after 1918

Uncontested dynasts:

  1. Nicholas Mihailovich (1859-1919)
  2. Paul Alexandrovich (1860-1919)
  3. Georgij Mihailovich (1863-1919)
  4. Nicholas Nicolaievich (1856-1929)
  5. Michael Mihailovich (1861-1929)
  6. Peter Nicolaievich (1864-1931)
  7. Alexander Mihailovich (1866-1933)
  8. Kiril Vladimirovich (1876-1938)
  9. Georgij Konstantinovich (1903-1938)
  10. Dmitri Pavlovich (1891-1942)
  11. Boris Vladimirovich (1877-1943)
  12. Gavril Konstantinovich (1887-1955)
  13. Andrew Vladimirovich (1879-1956)
  14. Fedor Alexandrovich (1898-1968)
  15. Vsevolod Ivanovich (1914-73)
  16. Nikita Alexandrovich (1900-74)
  17. Rostislav Alexandrovich (1902-78)
  18. Roman Petrovich (1896-1978)
  19. Dmitri Alexandrovich (1901-80)
  20. Andrew Alexandrovich (1897-1981)
  21. Vasili Alexandrovich (1907-89)
  22. Vladimir Kirilovich (1917-92)

Issue of wives with tenuous membership in "ruling family":

  1. Michael Mihailovich de Torby (1898-1959)
  2. Alexander (Yurievich/)Georgijevich Yurievsky (1900-88)
  3. Rostislav Rostislavich (1938-99), depends upon whether Alexandra Pavlovna Galitzina, a descendant of Gediminas, didysis kunigaikstis of Litvins, were of an (once) ruling house
  4. Michael Andreievich (born 1920), depends upon whether Elisabeth Sasso-Ruffo, daughter of a Meschersky princess, etc, were of an (once) ruling house
  5. Andrew Andreievich (born 1923), depends upon whether Elisabeth Sasso-Ruffo, daughter of a Meschersky princess, etc, were of an (once) ruling house
  6. Michael Fedorovich (born 1924), depends upon whether Irina Paley, biological daughter of Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich born of a morganatic marriage, and granddaughter of a reigning emperor, were of a ruling family

Obvious morganauts:

  1. Yurij Mihailovich Brassov (1910-31)
  2. Vladimir Andreievich Romanovsky-Krasinsky (1902-74)
  3. Paul Dmitrievich Ilyinsky (1928-2002), titular Duke of Holstein-Gottorp
  4. Prince Dimitry Pavlovich Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (b.1954), titular Duke of Holstein-Gottorp
  5. Prince Michael Pavlovich Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (b.1961)
  6. Gaorgij Alexandrovich Yurievsky (born 1961)
  7. Nicholas Romanovich (born 1922), son of countess Cheremeteva

etc

  1. Prince Dimitri Romanovich Romanov (b.1926)
  2. Prince Alexis Andreyevich Romanov (b.1953)
  3. Prince Peter Andreyevich Romanov (b.1961)
  4. Prince Andrew Andreyevich Romanov (b.1963)
  5. Prince Nikita Nikitovich Romanov (b.1923)
  6. Prince Feodor Nikitovich Romanov (b.1974)
  7. Prince Rostislav Rostislavovich Romanov (b.1985)
  8. Prince Nikita Rostislavovich Romanov (b.1987)
  9. Prince Nicholas Nikolayevich Romanov (b.1968)
  10. Prince Daniel Nikolayevich Romanov (b.1972)

Not all marriages of recent dynasts were morganatic, if measured by similar standards as Vladimir measured his own wife. Shilkanni 01:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] list of members

according to publihed records of the association itself, at various times the following have explicitly entered to the membership:

  • founding: Andrew Alexandrovich (dead)
  • founding: Dimitri Alexandrovich (dead)
  • founding: Vassili Alexandrovich (dead)
  • founding: Catherine Ioannovna (dead)
  • founding: Vera Constantinovna (dead)
  • founding: Marina Petrovna (dead)
  • founding: Nadejda Petrovna (dead)

new members accepted in the Association, in order of the arrival of their letter, were:

  • Nikolai Romanovich (1979) LIVES
  • Nikita Nikitich (1979) dead
  • Xenia Andreevna (1979) dead
  • Elizaveta Nikolaevna (1979) LIVES
  • Andrey Andreevich (1979) LIVES
  • Natalya Nikolaevna (1979) LIVES
  • Mihail Fedorovich (1979) LIVES
  • Mihail Mihailovich (1979) dead
  • Tatiana Nikolaevna (1979) LIVES
  • Fedor Nikitich (1979) LIVES
  • Dimitri Romanovich (1979) LIVES
  • Alexandr Nikitich (1979) ?
  • Nadejda Dmitrievna (1979) ?
  • Rostislav Rostislavich (1980) dead
  • Mihail Andreevich (1980) LIVES
  • Marina Vassilievna (1980) LIVES
  • Stefana Rostislavna (1980) LIVES
  • Olga Andreevna (1980) LIVES
  • Alexey Andreevich (1981) LIVES
  • Alexandra Rostislavna (1982) LIVES
  • Rostislav Rostislavich (1985) LIVES
  • Nikita Rostislavich (1987) LIVES
  • Petr Andreevich (1996) LIVES
  • Pavel Dmitrivich (1996), Ilyinsky, dead

[edit] presidents

The first President of the Romanoff Family Association was Prince Dmitri Alexandrovich and after his death the Presidency passed to Prince Vassili Alexandrovich. During both chairmanships Prince Nicholas Romanovich was Vice President. After the death of Prince Vassili Alexandrovich, Prince Nicholas Romanovich was chosen as President and Prince Nikita Nikitich as Vice President.

In 1992 the General Assembly of the Romanoff Family Association decided the creation of the post of Honorary President electing the oldest living member of the Family, Princess Vera Constantinovna. The General Assembly also decided the creation of Associate Memberships in the Romanoff Family Association, which could be offered to children and grandchildren of Romanoff Grand Duchesses and Princesses, persons who have always shown close ties to the Family, as well as to widows and widowers of Princes and Princesses.

[edit] deceased associate members

  • Maria Illariovna, widow of Prince Nikita Alexandrovich
  • Tihon Nikolaevich Kulikovsky, son of the late Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna

These (and if additional lists of newer joiners) should be chacked against the member listing, so that the article will not claim any such a member who is not. Shilkanni 00:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fantasy titulary should be axed from their nomenclature inside the article

At present, there is a bunch of persons titled by some earlier editor as Princes and Princesses "of Russia". As far as I know, for most of them that's a mask of crap. Most of those persons do not use, nor are they known, as "of Russia", but just as "Romanov". Those Russia-titles should be gone through and changed to names which correspond with the reality. I am not asking to erase used titles of pretension, just such titles which the persons themselves are not using. Shilkanni 19:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)