Talk:Roman Catholicism in Sweden

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[edit] Requested move to Roman Catholicism in Sweden

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


This article is the only one with a title of the form "Catholic Church in X". The rest of the articles in [[Category:Roman Catholic Church by country]] all have the form "Roman Catholicism in X". Without expressing an opinion on what the best title form is for articles of this category, I think all the articles should have the same form and so we should change the title of this article until such time as a consensus forms to change all the article titles to a different form.

This is not a straightforward move because of the current redirect from Roman Catholicism in Sweden to this article. Thus, it takes an admin to delete Roman Catholicism in Sweden and then move this article there.

--Richard 18:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't appear controversial. Why don't you put it under "Uncontroversial moves" on WP:RM if you don't have any reason to believe it will be disputed? Joeldl 03:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Because there was a dispute last year regarding the use of "Catholic Church" vs. "Roman Catholic Church" to denote the churches that were in communion with the Bishop of Rome. On April 11, 2006, User:Uppland moved this article from Catholic Church in Sweden to Roman Catholic Church in Sweden. On April 26, 2006, User:Vaquero100 moved it back to Catholic Church in Sweden. This dispute is documented in the archives of Talk:Roman Catholic Church. I am not taking sides in this dispute. The only reason that I want to move this once again to Roman Catholicism in Sweden is because that is the convention used by all the other articles in [[Category:Roman Catholic Church by country]].
--Richard 03:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'll bite. User:SynKobiety argues that "the general pattern does not conform to Wikipedia naming conventions". What would you say does conform to Wikipedia naming conventions? Do you now propose to move all the other articles to conform to the naming conventions? --Richard 04:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Support as the requester of this move --Richard 04:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Support the move to conform to the general pattern "Roman Catholicism in Country X". Joeldl 04:21, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Oppose because the general pattern does not conform to Wikipedia naming conventions. --SynKobiety 04:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
The pattern that exists appears established. Moving this article won't hurt anything if you intend to propose moving all the articles. There is a procedure for proposing mass renamings. Do you intend to propose moving all the pages that follow this pattern?Joeldl 04:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Support in order to conform to the established pattern, and also because the proposed title is less ambiguous. Fishhead64 15:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Support If it is good enough for France or Brazil, I think "Roman Catholicism in Sweden" should conform to this standard.Moheroy 00:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from Catholic Church in Sweden to Roman Catholicism in Sweden as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 18:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Ethnic Swedes

Anyone have any figures on the number of ethnic swedes who are catholic? After some serious googling i found nothing.


According to the US State Department http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51583.htm
"There are an estimated 145,000 Roman Catholics, of whom 82,000 are registered with the Roman Catholic Church. Approximately 85 percent of Catholics are first or second generation immigrants, the largest groups coming from Southern Europe, Latin America, and Poland. Within the Stockholm Catholic Diocese, the Armenian, Chaldean, Maronite, Melchite, and Syrian churches celebrate Mass in their respective languages. Since the 1960s approximately 100 persons have converted to Catholicism annually."
My suspicion is that if one went back a third generation there would be even less without immigrant ancestry. However many of these Catholic Swedes are indistinguishable from most urban Swedes, even by surname. The main issue is that The Law of Religious Freedom only came into effect in 1951, so it was very difficult to be a Swedish Catholic before this time, in addition the Church of Sweden has, so far, maintained apostolic succession. Swedish Lutheranism has also been historically very conservative maintaining much Catholic theology, so converting to Catholicism has always had a strangely internationalist air and usually been a personal matter, children of Swedes who turned to Rome rarely maintained this affiliation until very recently.Moheroy 06:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


So these estimated 63,000 unregistered Roman Catholics are most likely catholics only by tradition, leaving us with (82,000 - 85%) ca 12,300 ethnic swedes claiming Roman Catholicism as their religion. Have i understood it correctly? If so, i think these numbers should be added to the article. /OGOL 19:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)