Talk:Roman Abramovich

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A new external link has been added to article: The Guardian UK newspaper: 'He won, Russia lost'.

I just changed the birthdate from the 28th to the 24th based on information here http://www.virgin.net/money/moneymakers/abramovich.html Sairen42 21:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have just read the articles on Abramovich and Khodorkovsky. There is a clear but sharp bias in favour of A. I have found the reading embarrassing, not because of this, but because I do not think it's a casual thing. 8 Nov 2006

from the article:

Abramovi is also the governor of a remote region within Russia, where he has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars to improve the area.

He spent millions of dollars to buy his election! (he literally bought every person in the district, by distribuiting products worth of a few hundreds dollars per person, so he got 85% of the votes in the election).

Also, he got his billionsk by getting the Russian industry for near-to-nothing. Somebody with a better knowledge of Russia should write about these, in order to get it more NPOV. Bogdan 12:08, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

No matter what his motives where the fact of the matter is the article is accurate and less POV than what you are saying. SimonMayer 05:00 22nd February 2004

At the moment the article doesn't actually say where his money comes from (it mentions in about para 4 that he has a stake in Sibneft, but doesn't say what Sibneft is). Does anyone have the expertise to fill in the gaps? And is his Jewishness relevant enough that it needs to be mentioned in the first line? Harry R 13:13, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sibneft is one of the larger natural gas and pipeline companies in the Russian Federation. There is no particular reason, as I see it, NOT to mention his faith, so it is neither relevant no irrelevant.J.F.Oceanhahn 1930PST July 17 2004

The use of 'Jewish-Russian' in the first sentence implies that there is something fairly significant about him being Jewish. If he was Christian, atheist, or a member of one of the many other ethnic minorities in Russia (Tatar, Azerbaijani, Ukrainian) I doubt it would be mentioned so prominently. The first sentence should be the most important information; something like Michael Howard is a better model. Harry R 11:08, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"Abramovich is also the governor of the remote region of Chukotka in Siberia, where he has pumped in hundreds of millions of dollars to improve the quality of life in the area."

-This is absolutely contrary to everything I've read about his dealings in Chukotka. Would whoever wrote this please cite a source for this piece of very dubious information.Palefire 01:59, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)

First of all. He is Jewish as you may know Jewish people support each other ( and good they do so ) and are very very Jewish oriented. Example you can NOT marry a Jewish girl if you are NOT a Jew. What I want to say is that the particular person had been supported by the Jewish community. The Fact is that the Jews know about money, its in their DNA. Of course the man has skils but if he was born non Jew or in Vietnam, Irak, Iran thinks would be different.


All in all this is a very weak article, and creates a very clean picture of a very controversial figure. There are large chunks I'd like to edit out, but I've only deleted this sentence, which is patent nonsense:
"The move into football is seen as a diversification of his commercial interests out of Russia."
- Seen by who?? If you think that Abramovich's aquisition of the companies owning Chelsea was an investment, then arithmetic isn't your strong point (he paid off their £80 mln debts and has splashed out £200 mln so far on new players - there's no way he's going to re-coup such expenditure). He bought Chelsea for his own personal amusement, and to gain some status and celebrity. Not as an investment. Palefire 18:45, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
Do you know for sure that it was for amusement, status and celebrity? That there was no possible money laundering motivation, for example? Peoplesunionpro 02:20, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)
Money laundering motivation? How does that work? Do you call pouring money into a club money laundering? Anyway, what I said above is the consensus view among financial analysts.Palefire 23:20, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)


Made some changes, a more knowledgable person should shed more light on this highly controversial figure, to say the least, and i agree that this is indeed a very weak article written obviously by someone at the public relations office of abramovich. I din't remove the part where it mentions the charities, but most russians i ve spoken too consider this guy a ruthless, and this all too obvious attempt to canonize such a crook kinda sickened me, but in time people will come up with the details.

I have been to Chukotka and worked with associates of Abramovich, and although most of the criticisms regarding the source of his wealth are correct, he's been very supportive of the region which was otherwise almost completely neglected by the Yeltsin and Putin governments, and people were on the brink of starvation under the previous governor, Nazarov. Sarah Hurst (BeringStrait) March 29, 2006

I edited out the paragraph attributed to kompromat.ru. That's like attributing information to The Sun (UK) or National Enquirer (US) and calling it fact. There were also some inaccuracies about Sibneft's privatization and the creation of RusAl (which was not acquired at privatization) which I corrected. In addition, I added a word or two about Chukotka where I've visited once and seen the massive construction effort since he became governor (one user commented earlier that he had bought election, but all the construction ocurred afterwards so that is inaccurate).

Contents

[edit] Is Abramovich a criminal?

Does anyone have more detail on the criminality involved in Abramovich's successes at taking huge shareholdings during the cowboy period of early Russian capitalism? In particular, also, why is that Putin has gone after some of the crooks from that period but not Abramovich, does he have something on Putin? Can anyone contribute on that? Also on the British government's indiference to allowing major international criminals like him to freely settle in London?

A lot of what you suggest involves conjecture and (as yet) unproven allegations. I'm not sure Wikipedia would be the place to record them. If you can find impartial sources then by all means add them. SteveO, 23:07, 23 April, 2006 (UTC)
If you're going to throw allegations of criminality around, then Wikipedia is entitled to expect the very highest quality of verifiable proof from you, since you would not only be laying yourself but the Wikipedia Foundation open to action for libel from the second wealthiest person in the UK. That is, we would require plenty of corroborative citations from respected sources otherwise not only would you be violating the WP:V policy but would probably fall foul of WP:OFFICE. I don't know where you're from, but point out that Abramovich would very likely avail himself of the English courts system, who take a very dim view of libel - there is no lower standard of evidence needed in cases involving public figures as there is in the US, and the law requires that the defendant (i.e. you and/or Wikipedia) prove the truth of every single word of the libel, otherwise the plaintiff wins. Since Abramovich has never been convicted, or, as far as I know, even charged with any criminal offence anywhere, I would urge you to be extremely careful in what you write in this area. -- Arwel (talk) 23:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I would have thought it very unlikely Abramovich would sue in the UK given the resultant publicity; the british press would go into overdrive mode. Also many similar allegations have been made in UK newspapers and Abramovich has not done anything about them. MarkThomas 08:08, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
It is irrelevant if he will sue or not. Wikipedia is not a place for conjecture and since Abramovich has never even been charged, much less convicted, of a crime it is inappropriate to call him a "criminal". If you have problems with Russia's privatization system in the 1990s, fine, but since that was the (imperfect) law of the land at the time, you can't fault him or other "oligarchs" for having taken advantage of it. Moreover, while 3 oligarchs have been arrested or are in exile, there's over 30 Russian billionaires about which you are uninformed who are going about their business every day just like Abramovich. He is not the exception to the rule, but quite the opposite. 17:22 27 May 2006

Just a point.. I am under the impression the first poster asked if he was a criminal and whether there was any evidence to support such a claim! I am not a lawyer but i very sure that there is nothing wrong with asking if someone is a Criminal. The poster was not even suggesting we have a paragraph asking this question in the article, not unless anyone has any evidence. How about you read what the question was before you answer!!

The original title of this section was Abramovich as a criminal, asserting that he is. It was later changed (not by me) into a question. See here SteveO 16:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent additions, sources please =

The article has recently been expanded with claims without sources, and outright rumours. I am deleting a few of them, but a larger review is needed. I also found a good source that may be used. -- Heptor talk 20:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I likewise removed two unfounded rumours that had been added into this entry: a) that Abramovich looked into buying the Vancouver Canucks (not true) and b) that he had purchased the VIP1 automobile license plate formerly belonging to the Pope (also not true). You can find press stories for both rumours but, surprise, the press isn't always right. - J

Err, Number plate record price, Motoring News ? -- Arwel (talk) 21:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Kansas City Chiefs

Abramovich does NOT own the NFL's Kansas City Chiefs, they are owned by their founder, Lamar Hunt. --Bigbadkeeper 12:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] -ski

this suffix is not only polish. In russian -ski means belonging to some place, like "of" in english and "von" in german.

True. The -ski suffix is pan-Slavic, Polish, Russian, Checz, Ukrainian, etc. In fact, "Russian" in the Russian language is "russki". It would certainly be odd if Russians used a Polish construction to refer to themselves?

[edit] Abramovich is a proud jew,

And as you can see by taking a look on other famous jews articles, it is written on their biography that they are jews (e.g. Albert Einstein, Franz Kafka, Natalie Portman). Judaism is not just his religion, he was born to the jewish people! His ancestry is Jewish! Go and learn some history before you remove the tag "Jewish" from his biography.

I just removed "Jewish" from the introduction. Notice, that the articles of the people listed in the above comment do not contain "Jewish" in the introductory sentence. Rather, the reference to their religion/ethnicity is contained in the Infobox. Please keep it there.

What does the title "proud jew" mean? Does he really "proudly" advertise that he is jewish?

It is an important piece of information that would help to create a better picture of the figure. Therefore, I signified in the introduction that Roman Abramovich is a Jewish-Russian person. I have also changed the old link that lead to the article on the Russian ethnicity, which is irrelevant in this case. The link now leads to the Russian Federation, thus signifying his citizenship. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.172.29.2 (talk) 22:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

What do you mean by "better picture"? How the picture from "Jewish-Russian" is better than the one where "Jewish" is placed in the Infobox? In addition to clarifying his/her statements, the previous user should register to add weight to his/her arguments.

As the article reads now, it doesn't seem to place undue weight on Abramovich's Jewishness (it is only mentioned once). However, whether or not he is a "proud Jew" or religious is not really important. Russia has a long history of virulent of antisemitism, and many Russians of all political stripes -- whether or not they can be considered antisemitic -- make a big deal out of the fact that many of the oligarchs who became wealthy after the fall of the Soviet Union are Jewish. Even many liberal, educated Russians believe uncritically in positive stereotypes about Jews (such as that they are good with money), and believe that Russian Jews often help each other out, much as do other minority groups (such as Caucasians and Central Asians). Because of the emphasis that others, especially Russians, place on the fact of his Jewishness makes it worth including no matter how he himself views the issue. As I don't know that there has been any special controversy about Abramovich in particular being Jewish (aside from the general "many oligarchs are Jews" idea), merely re-adding the Jewish tag seems appropriate (I can't imagine that he is any less religious than Einstein, Kafka, or Natalie Portman). If people really feel a more in-depth mention is important or informative, it should probably be discussed on the [[Russian_oligarchs#Russia]|oligarchs] page or somewhere else. Trying to "prove" whether he is sufficiently Jewish for it to be emphasized on his biography page seems a tad ridiculous. I am fairly new, though, and these are just my thoughts. Stuffisthings (talk) 16:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Yeltsin Connection

The article reads:

Abramovich's close relationship with Boris Yeltsin and his family is well known, and some details have been provided by general Alexander Korzhakov.


Please, people, don't assume everyone knows something just because it is well known to you. I've only just discovered Mr. A. and for reasons of my own want to learn more about him. What is his connection with Yeltsin's family? Was he sleeping with his daughter?

--Philopedia 13:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

He is the best chairman in the WORLD!!!

[edit] Attempted purchase of Abramovich.com

From the article: "He attempted to purchase the internet domain Abramovich.com, but was rebuffed by the current owner, an American of the same name."

The citation is not credible at all. Another person filling in the guestbook on the very same page claims to be Tom Cruise, who "travelled here and morphed into human form", then saying, " Please save the elf, he's in grave danger. I like swimming in shallow streams, freshwater, like trouts do." Should this be included on the Tom Cruise page? Of course not, so why is the guestbook credible for this page? (The article has contained this claim since January.) -- Ianiceboy 02:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

You're right. I've removed it. If someone has a proper source they can put it back, but we can't have such poorly sourced claims in articles on real people. garik 10:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I am the owner of the website www.Abramovich.com. I am glad it is removed, I was getting numerous emails every day from people asking me if it is true. The guestbook is used by numerous folks trying to be funny. Of course Roman Abramovich did not contact me using the guestbook. He is very professional, as was his lawyer I dealt with. I never had any contact with Roman, only his lawyer. Abramovich 17:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jews

Whoever wrote this article is obsessed with Jews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.143.97 (talk) 01:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Haha, lol I agree.

[edit] Jewish by religion?

Why is his religion listed as Judaism? What proof is there that he practices Judaism? I don't see a yarmulke on his head, I don't see him going to a synagogue. Just because he has Hebraic roots doesn't mean he keeps kosher or believes in the God of the Torah. Only a tiny fraction of Russian-born ethnic Jews, even the ones in Israel, actually practice Judaism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CommanderJamesBond (talk • contribs) 06:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)