Talk:Rollmops

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[edit] Ingredients

Rollmops is not made only with Herring. In Brazil its made with sardine.

[edit] Rollmop

What is the difference between Rollmops and Rollmop? Cattleyard 13:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

There is apparently no difference; I move for merger of the two, with the rollmop article(singular) being merged into this one (plural), as it is merely for the Scottish variation on the theme. SM247 08:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

How do you know the German dish isn't a variation and the Scottish the original one? 19:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

"Rol 'm op" as mentioned in this article is a distinctly Dutch phrase, not a German one. Rollmops either has Dutch origin (disputable, but possible) or a different German explanation. Kweniston 15:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no singular "Rollmop" in German. "Der Rollmops" is singular, the plural is commonly made via e-Suffix + Germanic Umlaut calling it "Die Rollmöpse". It parallels here with Pug dog which is "Mops"/"Möpse" in German. I do personally assume that "Rollmop" is a non-German invention in other grammatical system where "-s" is commonly used for plural (e.g. English) so that a synthetic form of a singular "Rollmop" seems natural.

[edit] Etymology and things

OK, I've researched and referenced the etymology, and so far two highly reputable dictionaries say that it is German, not Dutch in origin (citations in article). Some more information on the actual history, as well as the modern distribution of the dish would be great, but I have a feeling that won't be easy to find. It does seem to be highly widespread: We have it in South Africa, it's certainly known of in the US, and it seems to be distributed across most of Northern Europe (see the bit of trivia about the Czech/Slovak "@" sign). Anyway, now I'm off to eat the things that inspired me to edit this article... -Kieran 13:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The German Wikipedia article assigns the etymology to de:Mops (Hund) / Pug dog. Twisting words like this is quite common in the area (yes, I do live in Berlin). The Wiktionary http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mops assumes that the German word Mops is related to Dutch "moppen", also known in English as "to mop" as in "mops and mows". Now that "mops face" has brought in the name of the dish - as a cultural reference a Rollmops should be eaten starting with the open end first, i.e. the face ;-) Guidod 10:36, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Although listed as German, I personally believe that the name Rollmops originates from Dutch (Rolmops). Like in many languages, Germany introduced a lot of Dutch terms into their language about maritime terms and marine animals, such as Makrele, Hai, and Pottfisch, all derive from Dutch (makreel, haai, potvis). Rollmops would be no exception, clearly. I think the 'Rol 'em op' ("roll him up") theory deserves to be listed in the main article, and imho is a far more plausible and less far-fetched theory than the German Dog theory. Especially since the Dutch have a long history and reputation of eating Herring, the Germans most probably took over their name, like they with other fish. Even today, look at the "matjes" sold in Germany --> maatjes(haring): another Dutch term. The prevalence of Rolmops in South-Africa understates this theory, because of the history of Dutch settlers there.
Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_influence_on_German Kweniston 12:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
My other, less restrictive theory would be that the Dutch, historically present in Germany and Berlin, and most certainly in the fish industry, invented/used the name Rol 'em op (roll up the thing) in Germany for the German customer, who favored this herring in vinegar. After that, the name traveled the world, maybe even back to Holland. Anyhow, linguistically and grammatically the word is clearly and very plausibly traceable to the Dutch language, but not to German. In German Rollmop(s) is just a nonsense word of which people like to guess the etymology. Roll is Dutch (rollen, to roll) 'em is Dutch = him (hem, short), op is Dutch (on, onto, upon, common prefix for verbs, such as oprollen). It doesn't need an etymology, it's right there. Rollihnauf would be something very more German. My advice: just look one traditional fish (herring) loving and exporting country westwards, learn where German fish names come from, and then learn some basic Dutch. So the name "possibly" comes from Germany, but probably from the Dutch language. Or, if you like, maybe even Danish or Norwegian, if a solid explanation exists.
However, I have not the stomach to challenge the official view of the frontpage article, because "some publications back the German version". This improbable theory needs to be challenged at least by alternatives. If somebody just wrote something in a book :).
To end the discussion: Can somebody please explain to me the possible (?) link between a rolled up pickled herring and a dog? Kweniston (talk) 01:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The sound exchange "emop" to "mops" does not sound plausible, sorry, any reference how that could have come about? It is however a good idea to try to relate the word "mops" to similar words in Low German (including Dutch) simply because most fish products have been transported from the seas to the inner continent - dragging the name along. What you should understand is that Berlin does have a tradition of making up fun words so that calling for "sounds nonsense" does not make it implausible. (and note: the Dutch influence on German article is crap). Guidod (talk) 22:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The word "mokken" in Dutch, is to make a sour face. This has nothing to do with "moppen". Those are just jokes you tell to your friends, usually "schuin", meaning rude, obnoxious. Just had to correct this language mistake. Yes I am Dutch, you can take my word for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.250.23.247 (talk) 21:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)