Talk:Rohonc Codex

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All discussion before redirection from Rohonczi_Codex was left at Talk:Rohonczi_Codex.

  • Unsuccessful move :( to tmp name, In order to move(rename) the [Rohonczi Codex] to [Rohonc Codex] -see Talk:Rohonc Codex tmp Talk:Rohonc Codex tmp1 Nasz 02:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ps* administrator help will be perhaps reqiured. But plz do not delete history. Some old entries in [Rohonczi Codex] may be interesting and the policy states that history should stay.

Contents

[edit] Criticism

Shouldn't the article contain criticism of the alleged translations/interpretations? They seem rather far-fetched... 惑乱 分からん 23:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.204.12.40 (talk) 18:20, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to build a roadmap to it's demystification (by Mart Vabar)

This is the same if / then game, just like the "Voynich" MS.

Place of origin

To start, we might ask, from where came this book to Hungarian soil. I am sceptical about the West, North or even Balcans and I am (less) sceptical about it as a local (magyar) artifact.

One better bet is the "Eurasian highway", steppe. You could take your horses, your house (tent, I mean) and your Book and just ride from Hungary to the Volga river and Mongolia ... or vice versa. To make it all clear, Hungary has a big history as a point of destination for refugees. These people could come from far and might have stunning stories to tell (just one example: Khazars). What if one of these refugees was, par example, The Last Nestorian Of Central Asia?

Another nice bet is: it could come from any corner of the Turkish Empire. This book is probably a bit younger, than its paper. So, take a world map of about AD1600+ ... The Ottoman Sultanate was quite big and Hungary was part of it. Again, this book might come from far. Again, we might keep in sight the Eastern Christians (maybe Assyrians), possibly leaving places like Persia, Iraq etc.

Just wanted to point out, we should look East and Southeast, too. Until now, everybody has ignored these directions and I bet, this is the main reason why we have almost zero results.

Writing system

If you just visually compare this writing with other right-to-left systems, then you might remember the Kokturk runes ("Orkhon alphabet" in Wikipedia). First, Hungary has it's own version of these "runes". When this manuscript was written, these nice letters were still used in Hungary. Second, we have quite many different versions of these "runes" between Hungary and Mongolia.

But helas, it just isn't that easy. Despite this Kokturk alphabet is a democratic system with no "hard rules", this text can't be just one of it's versions. But it might be affected by these.

So, we should compare it with other writing systems, which run from right to left. In the former Turkish Empire, there are quite many of these, OK? What if the author just didn't like to write cursive stuff and modified some normal alphabet for his own language, creating these rune-like letters?

It also looks, we could have "too many" different glyphs there. So, should it be compared with syllabaries or syllabic alphabets? Some glyphs in this book look like pictograms, too. Shoud we search immediately for pictographic, hieroglyphic writing systems (Tibet, China?). Well, par example beyond Caucasian nations and Central Asia there is normal to use Tamghas in communication; everyone everywhere could mix pictograms and text.

To check this way out:

Ask historians for anything like this, say, roughly between Caucasia, Volga river, Turkestan (incl. the Eastern or "Chinese" Turkestan), Tibet and Persia ( ...huh!! ).

Do we have any experts for "Nestorian" writings of about AD1600 and up?

More questions

Where between the 2 big religions could then still survive some Pagan religions? (affirmative: Mari, Chuvash, maybe Ersa-Moksha, maybe somewhere in Caucasia, probably in "eastern" Turkestan and Tibet.) Could this be possible "inside" of the Islamic world?

If we see a crescent here, another there, this doesn't mean yet it's about Islam every time. This is a much older symbol. It is popular at Zoroastrians, probably also in Buddhism and Mani religion. This might look like too far away in time and space, but you never know...

Could there be an Aramaic component?

Just visually, this might be related to Nestorian or some other "New-Aramaic" alphabet. Which languages might be written, using this glyphset? Are there any other known mixed alphabets (of Aramaic + something else)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.204.56.234 (talk) 08:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'How should INRI be written in Kokturk runes?'

Here we have a reason to think, this might be a mix of Kokturk runes with some other writing system. If you take the inscription on the cross, probably the best scan available is

http://terembura.fw.hu/hunkonyv/roh/roh49.JPG

and just read the text from right to left in Kokturk runes, IMO you might get either KNKJ or YNKJ and I bet for the last one. So, the Latin INRI in some Turco-Tataric interpretation?

Kokturk YNKJ Latin INRI
Y (Ü, Ö, if you have these in your alphabet) I
N N (must be similar to Latin "Nazarenvs")
K (like Khogan, Khan) R (Rex)
J (stands for a "strong I") I

PS this might be an even beter scan of the inscription on the cross: http://www.dacia.org/codex/original/optm_26.jpg

here, in both Kokturk and Aramaic (Kokturk is a "daughter" of Aramaic), you might get the 3rd letter as "R, like Rex" instead of "K, like Khan" ... (can't remember right now, which version of Aramaic, but this is not that important)

[edit] Rohonc Codex tmp?

Isn't Rohonc Codex tmp the exact same article? Why is it repeated? ʄ!•¿talk? 15:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)