Talk:Roger Toussaint

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This article is obviously written or editted by somebody that is against Roger Toussaint, it needs less POV. --I Am Ri¢h! 15:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

This article was written by me and I don't think I'm either for him or against him my friend, it is just a description of what I see living in NYC myself. Enjoy your commute in your stinking car. respect —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.198.136.184 (talk • contribs)
That's the point, it's not supposed to be what you see, that's why it's POV.

"I don't think that yelling 'I am rich' is just just as disputable."
The sig is a joke. --I Am Ri¢h! 15:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] good point

but let's "see" how all New Yorkers including MTA workers themselves see it and then lets discuss again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.198.136.184 (talk • contribs)

[edit] His name

His name is Roger Toussaint, not Toussant as the media has been mispronouncing it. I see that the wikipedia article now has the incorrect spelling as well (I'll correct it). I'm from Trinidad and Tobago, and several of my friends had the surname Toussaint. It's a French name, brought over from the colonial days, given by French planters to the slaves that they owned. It's pronounced two-seh or two-say, not two-sant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjairam (talk • contribs)

Thanks for making this correction. --Aude 00:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I also saw "Tuesaint". --I Am Ri¢h! 02:41, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

POV text moved from article:

Although many New Yorkers (inluding low income workers, which very often are disenfranchised minorities) suffer from his actions, the solidarity of workers has been an important tool for the improvement of work conditions in NYC. It is still a matter of debate whether the 2005 strike makes a lot of sense since the average subway worker already earns as much as a junior professor at an average State University.However, a subway worker works physically harder than a college professor. This makes one of Toussaints demands more understandable: lowering the retirement age for MTA workers. Toussaint himself reportedly earns about $ 250,000 a year.

This needs major revisions to make more NPOV, before reinserting into the article. --Aude 15:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

This whole section is incredibly POV. i'll digress from responding to its obnoxious politics, and simply saythat it should be removed from the site altogether. "Generally, Toussaint is regarded as a greedy, selfish, and immature man who would put his own ego and political reputation before the health, safety, and general welfare of millions of innocent citizens. The fact that he chose to make over 7 million New Yorkers suffer, in order to gain improved pay and benefits for some 34,000 transit employees, especially the week before Christmas, is considered by many to be the very definition of greed, selfishness, and lack of consideration for the community. Many feel that Toussaint should not have the power to hold the entire city of New York hostage, just to make demands for a fractional percentage of the population. Many question how Toussaint would feel if his mother went into the hospital for surgery, only to find that the doctor was on strike because he wanted more money and an earlier retirement age. Many feel that Toussaint would not be happy about this, and that such a scenario might in fact teach him a lesson, namely that no one should punnish innocent people for his own personal gain. Many feel that the transit workers' current average salary of $55K is more than enough already, and that the transit workers should feel lucky to even get that much, considering their general lack of education, training, and job skills. Many feel the MTA, the commuters, and entire city of New York would be best served by firing each and every employee currently striking under Toussaint's authority, and replacing them with idiot children, who in all liklihood, would do a perfectly satisfactory job of driving the trains and busses, and handing out tickets in little boothes.

It is additionally frustrating to many that Toussaint and his 34,000 transit workers feel unique in their unhappiness with their jobs. Many feel that the majority of New Yorkers are unhappy with their current occupations, but, "we don't all hold the city prisoner to get what we want," commented one agitated New Yorker.

She continued, "It's a personal issue that shouldn't effect any of the rest of us, it should be handled by private lawyers. How dare you make us all suffer like this, you selfish, lazy, greedy, (explitive ommited)? Imagine what would happen if every greedy worker who wanted more, more, more, just stopped working...the world would fall apart. We live in a society here people! You should all be fired for this. It's not like you're hard to replace. Any idiot with a pair of legs and arms can do your job. I think they should fire all these horrible people and replace them with the homeless, who would no doubt be greatful for the chance to work!"

Whether or not Toussaint is able to emerge victorious from this struggle is yet to be seen. It is almost certain, however, that he will join David Berkowitz and Barry Bostwick in annals of history as one of the "most hated New Yorkers" of all time."

"Generally, Toussaint is regarded as a greedy, selfish, and immature man who would put his own ego and political reputation before the health, safety, and general welfare of millions of innocent citizens." um yeah, slight POV there. this article reads like an NYPost editorial. not that there's anything wrong with that, but definitely needs to be cleaned up.RonMexico 16:48, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


I think most can agree that the section starting with "Generally, Toussaint is regarded" was inappropriate to an encyclopedia of information. I have removed it. I hope this was not bad form, but it seemed pretty obvious that someone had mistaken Wikipedia for their own personal blog. JoseBove 13:00, 22 December 2005 (EST)

[edit] Salary

Re: This last sentence is an indisputable fact, although some of his followers try to eliminate this information here on Wikipedia..

This is not the case. Instead, his salary was moved from the "Early life" section, to the section of the article where it talks about him being elected union president. He was not making $200,000+ in his early life. I don't want to keep reverting you (See: Three revert rule), but think some of the things your saying have an inappropriate POV tone, and mentioning the salary twice sounds silly. I realize you're new here, and want to assume good faith. Please just review the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, Neutral Point of View, Cite sources, Three revert rule, and other policies, and get better acquainted with how things are done on Wikipedia. Thank you. --Aude 19:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. --Aude 19:20, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
To help address concerns you have about his salary, do you know if he rides the subway everyday to work? Or does he indeed drive to work? If we have sources to back it up, then I think it's okay to mention. And if he does drive to work, that would distance himself from the constituents (commuters, as well as transit workers), and contribute to some of the negative feelings towards him. I know that the Mayor rides the the subway, to help him keep in touch with the "people". --Aude 19:26, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I am removing the reported salary of $200k until someone can cite a source for this. --AStanhope 05:41, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Their website seems to be, um, not working correctly. [1] I went to look at the Union's bylaws, but they have all been removed, along with a lot of other information on the website. Sounds like this will have to remain unsettled for now. --Quasipalm 14:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
"Mr. Toussaint, who earns a salary of $101,990, according to the union's filings with the federal labor department..." — Smeed, Jeremy, "Kalikow Warns Talks May Be "Futile", New York Sun, December 22, 2005.
And, I managed to find bylaws at http://elections2003.twulocal100.org/. -Aude (talk | contribs) 14:33, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

The article looks fairly neutral now, and I see from the talk page that lots of POV stuff was removed. Is the dispute still on? 70.231.185.132 03:09, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I would say that the POV template can be removed. Anyone care to second me and remove the flag? --Quasipalm 19:12, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Done. --Aude 19:14, 27 December 2005 (UTC)