Talk:Roger Revelle

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William, why don't you trust www.sepp.org ? Is it only because they find sources which contradict what you believe?

If Fred Singer interprets things differently from you, that means he has a different point of view. --Uncle Ed 14:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

SEPP is a propaganda organisation that happens to fit your POV. Over at ozone hole we had a long discussion of this, pointing out the errors in SEPPs view. Notice how you have (correctly) conflated SEPP and Singer, since SEPP is just a thin cover for Singer's POV pushing William M. Connolley 15:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

May we then begin the SEPP article by calling it a propaganda organisation, citing you as a source? --Uncle Ed 16:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

If you wish to begin the SEPP article by calling it a propaganda organization, you may cite me as Dr. Connelley's source, or yours, for this information. --User:jlancaster

Contents

[edit] Revelle and Singer paper

Deleted from article:

An article co-written by Revelle published in the early 1990s concluding that the science was "too uncertain to justify drastic action." (S.F. Singer, C. Starr, and R. Revelle, "What to do about Greenhouse Warming: Look Before You Leap. Cosmos 1 (1993) 28-33.) [1]

Anon wrote in his edit summary Deleted statement that is factually incorrect. Revelle was not a co-writer of article referenced but without explaining how he knows this. I'll wait a few days, but if no reason for the deletion is given I'll restore it (something like this):

  • Fred Singer says that Revelle co-wrote an article ...

Fair enough? --Uncle Ed

Its not in the ISI index. William M. Connolley 15:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

What is that, and how can laymen check it? --Uncle Ed 21:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
List of papers in journals. But its subs-only. However, what you probably want (or not) is http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/05/al-gores-movie/, comment 222 William M. Connolley 21:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
And, I am informed, http://home.att.net/~espi/Cosmos_myth.html. The assertion there is that although RR technically was an author, he wrote none of it and was pressured into signing William M. Connolley 17:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I was the "Anon" edit mentioned. Roger did not "co-write" the Cosmos article in any meaningful sense of that word. Further, the legitimacy of his "co-authorship" owing to simply the appearance of his name, is open dispute, too, if he was hoodwinked. For those of us who know Roger's handwriting, it's clear that his edits were not honored. In Singer's deposition, you'll note that Singer stated his own handwriting was Roger's; however, the difference is unmistakeable to even to a non-expert. 65.107.104.210 21:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Perpetuating this Cosmos Myth is unfair to Roger and it is damaging to the public's ability to discern propaganda from objective reporting of the scientific debate. Singer, Balling and Michaels have been leading propagandists for the energy industry since the late 1980s, happy to rake in attention and/or money from the energy industry through "public relations" non-profits. That's fine, so long as the public can see it's them. But I don't like them cleverly hiding their words inside a wrapper that is the life-long reputation of a great scientist on his deathbed! I believed, in 1994, that if I let Singer avoid embarrassment of a trial, that he and his crew would let the Cosmos article slip into obscurity. To the contrary, Singer has loudly pulled my name through the mud, and Balling is still out front, waving the Cosmos flag against Gore. User:jlancaster

[edit] Authorship dispute

Dr. Lancaster,

Perhaps we should say that your friend Roger let his name be used but contributed nothing to the article other than a galley review.

  • "he allowed his name to be used" [2]

Moreover, if he was unable to concentrate well, and especially if edits made in what you personally recognize was his handwriting were ignored, readers should know this. --Uncle Ed 18:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


Uncle Ed, First, Roger would want us to face forward and get the current observations formed into a solid current science, rather than wallow in muck-raking. Second, for the level of the current history of Roger Revelle in this wiki page, I think the audience is best served simply not even mentioning this awkward, constroversial blemish in Roger's list of hundreds of important reputable publications. Roger's career spanned almost 70 years, in which every month of every one of those years was filled with more significance and achievement than is represented by the Cosmos article or issue. For Roger's scientific contribution, and for his life and career, the Cosmos article is simply NOT NOTABLE. For global warming politics, for the seemy underbelly of the energy industry obfuscation campaign, this is very notable, and I believe the discussion therefore belongs on the global warming controversy pages, and on Fred Singer's pages, and Pat Michael's pages, and Robert Balling's pages. They are all still alive. But let us allow Roger to speak for himself by having his Wiki page address his life, his own papers, and solid contributions pre-February 1991, without tilting it so immensely askew by itemizing and emphasizing something that overtook him three months before he died. Third, if you feel you must make mention of the Cosmos article, then certainly it would be appropriate to annotate the full measure of the controversy, with links to the direct documentary evidence I've provided. Again, I think it better to do this through the skeptics' pages. 65.107.104.210 21:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC) jlancaster
All of that seems reasonable. I would like to see the article mention moved to the Fred Singer page, (1) crediting Singer as the primary author and (2) mentioning that Roger Revelle allowed his name to be used as a co-author. --Uncle Ed 13:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Seems fairish ("primary"? The point seems to be S was essentially sole author), if you add a link to the "myth" page William M. Connolley 15:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seattle-ites

Myasuda, I know of no known connection here. Can you explain, or give source? Jlancaster 01:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I added the category of "Seattleite" as meaning "born in Seattle" rather than living and working in Seattle: see http://www.agu.org/inside/awards/revelle2.html for support for this assertion. Per the Roger Revelle Wikipedia article, the Seattleite category is redundant, as this fact is mentioned in the text of the article. It does, however, allow him to be listed on the list of Seattleites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Seattleites). As to whether this is adequate justification for inclusion, I'll let you and other caretakers for this article make the call. Myasuda 02:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


Sorry for missing the obvious link. Seattle should be proud. Reverted to your prior editJlancaster 07:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] al gore and an inconvenient truth?

inspired al gore's interest in global warming and the making of his documentary. could be mentioned in legacy? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tejas81 (talk • contribs) 19:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC).


[edit] predecessors

It might be informative to add an link to the predecessors mentioned in WIKI to Revelle and Suess in the global warming part. These would be, at last Svante Arrhenius and G.S. Callendar, and of his contemporaries, at least Gilbert Plass. Vastarannankiiski 13:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)