Talk:Rockabilly

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Rockabilly is within the scope of WikiProject Music, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to music. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

[edit] important performers

I understand why burnette was taken out - he had been already mentioned before. but now both references to burnette were taken out. why? and why were orbison and cash taken out from the list? cash moved on and stopped playing rockabilly but his rockabilly WAS important so, in my opinion, he has to be listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.49.129.227 (talk) 13:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The "Important Performers" section was a bunch of unferenced, histronic text. Note the tag at the beginning of the section. The only reason ANY of it is still there is that neither I, nor anyone else, has gotten around to integrating it with the rest of the article. One thing about rockabilly, and rock n roll in general, is that narratives are jumbled together with little regard to when things happened. This is one reason most people think Elvis was "first". This should not happen in a well organized article. Again, Important Performers is headed for the "trash bin", but the preformers themselves, and where they fit in, aren't. Steve Pastor (talk) 21:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] fusion or precursor?

Was rockabilly really a fusion which included rock and roll, or was it a precursor to rock and roll, predating the existence of rock and roll?

Although historians can certainly find convincing examples of recordings which quite evidently place clear traces of the stylistic musical roots of (and transition from jazz to) rock and roll decades before it became a popular and identifiable genre, rockabilly certainly emerged fairly close to the birth of rock and roll as a recognised cultural phenomenon and it would be interesting to see if it is possible to determine whether it was rockabilly or rock and roll which was really the 'fusion' in the sense given in the article.

ericross

See First_rock_and_roll_record. Rock and roll is typically said to have begun in the 40s, even if it wasn't recorded until later, so it pretty definitely predates rockabilly, which wasn't born until 1953 or so. Tuf-Kat 16:40, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not make myself clear, but what I meant was:

Although rock and roll unquestionably has its roots traceable to material which appeared well before the advent of Rockabilly, I am wondering whether, just immediately before the roots of rock and roll transformed themselves from their jazz/pop precursors into rock and roll, one of those imediate precursors was not rockabilly.

I am obviously thinking of very early Presley recordings as an example of this.

I suppose the question revolves around things like:

What was the first rockabilly record?

To what extent were the earliest major rock and roll successes influenced by rockabilly?

Certainly we can think of 'lines of development' in rock and roll, where rockabilly had no discernable influence, because those lines can be traced to recordings made before and after the emergence and decline of rockabilly.

However to say that rockabilly was a fusion of rock and roll and something else, seems to imply that rockabilly was essentially influenced by rock and roll, rather than being an influence upon rock and roll, and it is the possibility that rockabilly could have been an influence upon the development of rock and roll (or at least that there was a bidirectional process of influence) that I wished to enquire about.

Ericross 00:37, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Oh, well there's no strict line between blues, rock and rockabilly. I guess it's more of a spectrum, really. So, yes, rockabilly certainly had an effect on rock -- it was the first fusion of the two styles. It had an effect both on country and rock. Tuf-Kat 02:46, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Linguistic origin

When was the term "rockabilly" first used, and did it specifically refer to Elvis Presley? If so, when and how did it come to be used to refer to the genre as a whole? --kidbritish 20:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The answer to the Elvis and rockabilly question is that, no, it did not, and does not refer specifically to Elvis Presley. I will be adding info that I just obtained references for, soon. I will also be following up on something that someone who hosts a huge Rockin COuntry Style database told me over the phone. Steve Pastor 22:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I heard from my source and he states that the term "rock billy" predates even the use by the Burnettes and Burlison. Note the use of the term in the text about the Saturday Night Jamboree. The first written use that could be found was in 1956. Lots of country music was referred to as Hillbilly music in the 40s and early 50s. Try the links to The Maddox Brothers and Rose, and other people listed as "forebears". Listen to their music at the Emory RCS site. Elvis was and still is sometimes referred to as "the Hillbilly Cat". The word "rock" appears not only in blues titles, but also in hillbilly titles and lyrics in the same time (as well as the Boswell Sisters in 1934 [1] [2] ). Put the two words together... "Verifiable" is where the hangup is. Steve Pastor 22:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stray Cat's role

While not willing to doctor the article at this point, I would submitt for discussion that the rockabilly revival started in the mid to late 1970's not the 1980's and that while arguably the most poplular of the revival groups, the Stray Cat's did not lead this revival but rather rode on the coat tails of many local rockabilly groups and such recorded acts as Robert Gordon and the Kingbees.

[edit] Re: Stray Cats etc.

The Stray Cats were the crest of the wave of Rockabilly's re-emerging popularity in the early 80's becoming the most famous/successful of the genre at the time.

Also, note that The Cramps formed in the early 70's (1973, I think?) and what came to be called "Psychobilly" sprang up around them some 15 years later.

According to Wanda Jackson, "We called it Rockabilly before we called it Rock And Roll."

Interestingly, in an interview for BBC radio in the early 1980's, one of the members of (Gene Vincent's)The Blue Caps commented "We didn't call it Rock'n'Roll, we didn't call it Rockabilly, in the beginning we called it Rythymn and Blues, that was all we ever called it."

[edit] Stray Cats, Country Music etc.

I've heard that rockabilly was still popular in the UK when the Stray Cats came along, but to American listeners the group was something of an anomaly: rockabilly had essentially migrated to country music by the time the Stray Cats hit American shores. Many of the original rockabilly acts, including Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, Wanda Jackson and perhaps Roy Orbison, were enjoying greater success on country radio than on pop radio. Also, rockabilly was a major influence on the outlaw sound (Waylon Jennings was a protege of Buddy Holly. Even the modern psychobilly stuff is classified under alt.country. Of course, many of the original rockabilly hits were also major country hits, but American pop music had moved on.

Someone with more information than I do should write about the countrification of rockabilly. --Archola 8/24/2005

[edit] List of rockabilly musicians

The increasingly LONG (and often redlinked and vanity-laden) list of "bands" in the article was becoming a malignant growth on the article. I dragged all the info over to List of Rockabilly musicians where it properly belongs. wikipediatrix 20:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] bands

Hey,what about the Johnny Burnette Trio? Probably the biggest rockabilly band going outside of Gene Vincent and The Blue Caps! Ever heard of Sonny Burgess either???

What about The Palidans. This band was huge in the rockabilly revival. You mention The Beat Farmers, The Blasters, and may other west coast bands and not the Palidans???? Dave Alvin played with the Palidans for a short stint and remain friends to this day. In the 80's and 90's the Palidans played both USA and Over seas to huge crowds. Los Lobos and the Fabulous Thunderbirds helped discover them and helped produce their first record. They also went on tour with Stevie Ray Vaughn. I know this is to much info, but I just thought you can't mention the Rockabilly revival without The Paladins. JunkJohnson 18:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I must retract. I checked the list of rockabilly musicians and you have the Paladins on the list. I know your list of bands in the article was getting to long, but maybe you will reconsider the Paladins. They are huge in the rockabilly, roots rock scene. thanx JunkJohnson 18:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] dyeing bird mountains

Is the phrase "dyeing bird mountains" correct? what does it refer too? Rahulchandra 22:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe somebody made it up. I Googled the phrase (in quotes) and got zero hits. Maybe it should be removed.

albalb -- 5 Oct. 2006

MATCHBOX…

Trev: 01.Nov 2006

One of the first main-stream UK charts successes in the late 1970's-early 1980's by a contemporary band was probably "Rockabilly Rebel" by Matchbox. This group had been in existence for a number of years, previously more as a Teddy Boy band (see 'Riders in the Sky'album). The nad was formed from members of The Houseshakers' (amongst others), who had supported gene Vincent on his final UK tour.

The first 'Rockabilly' album of Matchbox (also called 'Matchbox') has a very country-feel to it. The second album, Midnite Dynamoes, also has some very county-esque numbers, especially the instrumental 'Stranger in Nevada'. matchbox became less accessible as their work got more countrifed and commercial and the younger 'hep-cat' sound became more popular. The band also played the Wembley Country festival as part of the Rockabilly Night.

[edit] Rewrite Posted.

I read and agreed with the many criticisms of this inadequate and inaccurate article. Bill Haley is definitely NOT a rockabilly artist, the Stray Cats did NOT start the Rockabilly Revival, etc. So I got out my records and my reference books and posted some major revisions--complete with sources and images. I've tried to cover the major points without getting bogged down in detail that belongs in articles on individual artists or vanity projects and pruned the pointless and red-linked "see alsos" about such nonexistent genres as "gothabilly". Kingandrew 00:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Characteristics?

Shouldn't someone put the characteristics of rockabilly in the article? For example: you could put the lyrical themes, arrangements, track times, types of instruments used, vocal styles, etc.--Yellow Stripe 23:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The article is horrible

This is without a doubt one of the worst articles on Wikipedia. WAY too many POVish statements with no citation. Throughout the article, it talks how glorious Elvis was Much of the article seems to have been ripped-off from some kind of an Elvis fan-site. This article is about the genre of Rockabilly, NOT Elvis! C'mon people you can do better than this.--Yellow Stripe 02:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

help i really do need this information and did i get it? NO!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.2 (talk) 03:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Response

Yellowstripe, I'd like to respond to your criticisms. First you ask why the article doesn't describe the basic rockabilly sound and instrumentation. It does:

"Together, they would define the rockabilly style: “nervously uptempo” (as Peter Guralnick describes it), with slap bass, fancy guitar picking, lots of echo, constant shouts of “go man go,” and vocals full of histrionics such as hiccups, stutters, and swoops from falsetto to bass and back again. [8] [9]"

As you can see, style and instrumentation are described, with two references cited. Could there be a ton of details on specific equipment used by various artists? Sure, but a general-interest article like this is not the place for such items. Several of the links at the end of the article offer such details for those seeking them.

Regarding Elvis Presley, there is no question that Elvis was the first musician to record in the style and that he was the key influence on those who came afterward. He was also a much bigger star than any of the other rockabilly performers and events that thrust him into the spotlight--like the 1968 TV special or his death in 1977--brought renewed attention to the music that launched his career: rockabilly. Here is how Peter Guralnick states it in the "Rockabilly " article on page 62 of the Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock & Roll: "For rockabilly started and in a sense ended with Elvis Presley. He was the colossus that bestrode its narrow world. Not that he was its most devoted practitioner by any means, nor even necessarily its most inspired. He was, however, undeniably the first, and the influence he exerted over every one of the singers who followed, either directly or by example, is incalculable."

None of this article has been "ripped off" from an Elvis fan site or any other source. It HAS been carefully researched, as the 30+ citations in the text demonstrate. What "POVish" comments do you feel lack citations? I can provide citations for anything you request.

I appreciate you taking the time to read the article. I'll be glad to work to make it stronger in response to clear criticisms. Kingandrew 04:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

== Whither Bill? ==

Can I ask how Bill Haley and the Comets got left out of this article?

206.136.32.215 17:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cut out racist BS sentence

I agree with this action. Polio, Nuclear War with the Soviet Union, the Red Menance, and the war in Korea, were some of the fears of adults living in that era. There's more, but maybe now I don't have to develop the arguments. Steve Pastor 15:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hank

Here is a list of Hank's "juke box dominating" songs from Billboard's web site: 1949 1 Lovesick Blues 1950 4 Why Don't You Love Me? 5 Long Gone Lonesome Blues 1951 1 Cold, Cold Heart 1952 3 Jambalaya 1953 1 Kaw-Liga 2 Your Cheatin' Heart. The majority of these songs can be described as songs about heart break. One analysis of William's songs finds that 75% of them were about heart break, etc. [3] His 1947 "Move it on Over" is often sited as an early "rock 'n' roll song, Jambalaya is energetic and well know, but... Steve Pastor 18:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lefty

Please read about his music at [4]. Here is selected text "Frizzell's records, while offering a fair share of heartbreak and despair," -- "poignant "Mom and Dad Waltz" skirt sentimentality not only in the lyrics but also in the dirgelike fiddle lines and moaning pedal-steel fills, ultimately saying what many feel in their hearts. Similarly, the buoyant expressions of romantic love fueling Frizzell's debut hit, "I Love You a Thousand Ways" " -- "the tenderness he brings to his singing" I'm not seeing rowdy Saturday night rockabilly stuff here. Steve Pastor 23:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sun recording were not all covers of blues songs

Regarding deletion of sentence on April 9, 2006... Sun released 5 records by Presley. That’s 10 songs. I Don't Care if the Sun Don't Shine is one of the sides, and "is a popular song, written by Mack David. This song was originally written for the Walt Disney Movie Cinderella. The most popular version was done by Patti Page in 1950". Elvis covered a Patti Page song! So the deleted sentence is incorrect. There are more examples. The "winning formula" was not simply Elvis doing blues. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steve Pastor (talk • contribs) 15:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sam Phillips "quote"

There are several versions of this "quote"

Over and over I remember Sam [Phillips] saying, “If i could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars.” (Sun Records co-manager Marion Keisker, citerad i Hopkins 1971: 66)

Marion Keisker ... recalled Sam Phillips saying repeatedly, “If I could find a white boy who could sing like a nigger, I could make a million dollars.” (Goldman 1981a: 129)

If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a million dollars. (Sam Phillips, citerad I Choron & Oskam 1991: 7)[ http://www.netikka.net/sek/docs/elvis-hela_avhandlingen.pdf] Elvis

Note the different words as the "quote" is repeated from text to text. The orginal "quote" is based on a second hand rendering. This is addressed in the following book -

After Elvis: The Posthumous Career of a Living Legend By Gilbert B. Rodman

page 32 “On more than one occasion, however, Phillips has denied making any such statement (Marcus, 198: 16n; Worth and Tamerius, 1988; 153n) and Keisker is the only source of direct evidence to the contrary.” [5] (emphasis added)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:JerryLeeLewisBookcover.jpg

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jason-scorchers-fervor.jpg

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[edit] Japan

Should someone mention the rockabilly culture in Japan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.188.89 (talk) 19:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

If you have verifiable information form an authoritative source, and think it's important, you could put it towards the bottom of the article. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:03, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remaining Text before Cleanup ended

Feel free to work it back into the article.

Most of Buddy Holly's big hits, including “That’ll Be the Day” and “Peggy Sue,” both of which were released in 1957, were his own compositions. Holly’s band was known as the Crickets. Holly died in a plane crash in 1959.^[1]
Gene Vincent remained very popular in Europe and helped inspire the next generation of musicians there. Vincent died of a ruptured ulcer in 1971.^[2]
Eddie Cochran—Humorously captured the details of teen life in his songs, much like Chuck Berry. Cochran was a gifted guitarist and songwriter, best known for hits like “Summertime Blues,” “C’mon Everybody,” “Sittin’ in the Balcony,” and “Something Else.” His slow songs generally showed a light touch and his rockers were exciting. He toured England to great success with Gene Vincent in 1960, but died in a car crash on his way to the airport to return to the USA.^[3]
Ricky Nelson had other hits including “Hello Mary Lou,” “Lonesome Town,” “Travelin’ Man,” and “Poor Little Fool.” On these records, Nelson worked with major rockabilly musicians, such as Johnny Burnette and James Burton. He two hits after 1964. Nelson died in a plane crash in 1985.^[4]

Steve Pastor (talk) 20:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Stray Cats Lonesome Tears.jpeg

Image:Stray Cats Lonesome Tears.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dwight Yoakum isn't a Los Angeles native

He was born in Kentucky and raised in Ohio! This is just simple fact-checking stuff, and something that seems pretty obvious at that. PinkPanther 04 (talk) 21:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)