Talk:Rock musical

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WikiProject Musical Theatre tasks: Help out with one of the WikiProject Musical Theatre tasks below. You may add your name to the Participants list to the right. edit this Open Tasks template Collaborate and work on the Collaboration of the Month Articles needing a content fork Mainly, these are articles on films and either their source or subsequent musicals. There are a couple where the musical needs to be "forked" from the source material. Feel free to add or remove as necessary. Important: If you split an article, please make sure that you move all the relevant links from the first article to the new one. To find which links to move, click on "What links here" at the old article and look through the list to see which links should be pointed to the film related link (for example, articles on actors in the film). Then, click on those links and update them to point to the film article. Thanks! Don't Play Us Cheap Roberta How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying I Married an Angel Lady in the Dark The Band Wagon - musical adaptation will to be forked after it opens in April.

Contents 1 Rock Musical vs Rock Opera 2 50's Rock and Roll 3 Thanks 4 Wicked

[edit] Rock Musical vs Rock Opera

This may be opening a can of worms here, but I am not sure that there really is a difference between what is called a "Rock Opera" and what is called a "Rock Musical". When asked whether his pieces were operas or musicals, Stephen Sondheim replied: Where are they being performed? If they are being performed in an Opera House, then they are operas. If they are being performed on Broadway, they are musicals. I am inclined to think the same thing in this instance. Thanks -Broadwaygal 18:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but the editor who split this article from the rock opera article disagrees. I think the best thing at this point is to improve this article, and later we can discuss merging them. -- Ssilvers 18:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The split was driven, in part, by this discussion regarding the related categories. -- SteinbDJ · talk · contributions 12:25, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I know that this topic has been debated more than once on Wikipedia. If you look at the rock opera article, I think you'll agree that it is so badly organized, and its content so confused as to make it almost worse than nothing. I tried to work on it yesterday but ran into an editor who did not want to discuss it. He also deleted information from the list of rock operas, which used to be very informative and is now just a naked list in alpha order. The problem is that there is no research and referencing there, just fancruft, OR and POV. I happen to think that rock opera is a genre that, as Broadwaygal implies above, is "rock musical" when it is presented on stage, and "concept album" or "concert" when it is presented in those media. So, I think it's OK to have two articles, and if we can't make "rock opera" into a decent article, at least we'll make this one into a decent article. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 14:11, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but why was there no discussion about this brought up on the Rock opera talk page? I know I've worked quite a bit on the article and it's really annoying to have people parachute in and make drastic, unnecessary changes. They clearly are the same thing. Is a recorded song and a song performed live two separate things? No, I'm pretty sure it's still a song.--Lairor 00:19, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

So listening to a CD is just as good as going to a concert? —  MusicMaker 05:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Whether or not it's "as good" is beside the point. I might think a jelly donut isn't as good as a chocolate donut but that doesn't make it not a donut. Furthermore some of the most famous examples of rock operas/musicals (Hair, Tommy, JCS, Rent) have experienced considerable success both on stage and on record. I would ultimately like to see a merger but I I think Ssilvers may have a good idea to work up this article first. Vegaswikian, who originally split the articles seems to have lost interest so hopefully it shouldn't be to hard to come to a merger consensus sometime in the future. And Spylab keeps reverting my reversions to the original Rock opera article while he seems to be silent on this one. I was a little worried at what I saw as drastic changes made in the couple weeks I was absent but I'm starting to feel better now.--Lairor 10:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Check out all the stuff that the editor over at rock opera deleted. He split the articles, not us. -- Ssilvers 01:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 50's Rock and Roll

Bye Bye Birdie premiered in 1960. It featured a largely "Rock and Roll" score. It was fifties Rock and Roll, but still Rock and Roll. The kind of Rock in Hair hadn't really been invented yet. Do others think that this counts as a Rock musical? Thanks-19:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Bye Bye Birdie is a "rock musical" even though rock music is used in the score. It is certainly less of a rock musical than Phantom or Les Mis. However, I think that its early use of rock music paved the way for "Hair", etc. I added a sentence and a cite. See what you think. I also modified the first sentence of that paragraph to reflect the earlier pieces. -- Ssilvers 20:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think a score that contains "Put On a Happy Face" can be considered a rock musical. —  MusicMaker 05:27, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but it is an important historical antecedent to the rock musical. This is in the history section, and it helps to explain the development of the genre. -- Ssilvers 06:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for fixing the wording and adding the additional information. I think there are still other examples out there like Bye Bye Birdie Thanks again! Broadwaygal 21:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

According to the book I cited, there was no rock and roll on Broadway between Birdie and Hair. Very nostalgic, old-fashioned stuff, like "Fiddler", Hello, Dolly! and Mame was on Broadway. See: http://www.musicals101.com/1960bway2.htm -- Ssilvers 21:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wicked

Can Wicked really be categorized as a Rock Musical? Broadening the genre a little too much it seems. I Just Kissed Al Pacino —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.61.118.78 (talk) 03:16, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Wicked is unequivocally a rock musical, although I agree that it is not a rock opera. -- Ssilvers 05:47, 13 October 2007 (UTC)