Talk:Robin Finck

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[edit] Image

Via Google Images I found that the Portugese Wikipedia has a much nicer public domain photo. I don't speak Portugese but it looks like it's tagged for moving to Commons. GNR-interested editors might want to use that pic here or keep an eye on it's pending move to Commons so we can use it... --kingboyk 12:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Songs Robin Played On and went either uncredited for or ignored

Can we please include his Manson time, he played keyboards (uncredited however both Manson and Finck confirmed he played on Coma White on keybaords

also:

Finck played on Broken, Fixed, The Downward Spiral, Further Down The Spiral, The Perfect Drug, We're In This Together, The Fragile, Things Falling Apart and also And All That Could Have Been.


So here's what Finck played on and thanks to Trent and Lohner, was uncredited for:

Wish (Keyboards)

Last (Keybaords)

Gave Up (Keyboards)

Physical (Oh So) (Backing Rhythm)

Heresy (mute) (Keyboards)

March Of The Pigs (Guitar)

Closer (Precursor) (Remixed)

Liar (Reptile Demo) (Sound FX)

Reptile (Sound FX)

The Art Of Self Destuction (Synth)

The Downward Spiral (The Bottom) (Synth)

March of The F**kheads (Guitar)

Memorobilia (Voices, other)

10 Miles High (Backing Vocals)

The Perfect Drug (perfect mix) (Backing Vocals)

We're In This Together (Synth)

Starf**kers (All About You Remix) (Guitar Overdub)

and uncredited for I'm Afraid Of Americans.

[edit] Played since 1993

His first show was in 1993 as a backing keyboardist, was a trial and then he re-joined full time in 1994.


[edit] NIN Discography

Right, I believe the following to be correct:

  • Finck contributed to "Memorabilia" which was featured on Closer to God
  • He is credited as a member of NIN for the recording of Further Down The Spiral
  • He toured around 1994–1996 as part of Downward and "Hurt (live)" features his work

One place I usually trust is NINwiki, and this backs up these assertions. violet/riga (t) 19:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Closer To God - [1]
Further Down the Spiral - [2]
And All that Could Have Been - [3]
The Downward Spiral - [4]

Bucketheader 20:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


The following links contradict all of your information, however:

http://www.discogs.com/release/4404

http://www.discogs.com/release/3528

http://www.discogs.com/release/4403

Bucketheader also wrote:

"you haven't provided a reliable source to show he isn't credited on those NIN albums."

Actually, these credits were taken directly from each albums liner notes. There is no reason why my posts should be degraded and referred to as "vandalism" when I am merely trying to post factual data with supported links.

VR2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VR2007 (talk • contribs) 20:06:53, August 19, 2007 (UTC).

Anyone can contribute to discogs, as far as I'm aware, it's not a reliable source for information here. However, the sources I've included in the article are. Bucketheader 20:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to assume good faith here: edit wars and accusations should always be avoided. I suggest that we look to other sources to further show his contributions. NINwiki is one source which is obviously rather good at detailing all thing NIN, but is a wiki and thus not a truly reliable source. If discogs is reader-submitted then it too isn't a decent source. I don't think that it would be easy to prove that Finck didn't contribute as websites showing credit listings may be missing some information, but we should be able to prove if he is credited by finding some other sources. I'll take a look. violet/riga (t) 20:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, http://www.discogs.com/release/4403 shows "5 Memorabilia (7:21) Remix - Brian Pollack , Chris Vrenna , John Van Eaton , Robin Finck , Sean Beavan , Sugar And His Friend , Trent Reznor" violet/riga (t) 20:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia guidlines are to source information, this has been done, and it has been done with a reliable source. If you revert the edits again you will get a warning on your talk page, if you do it again you will be blocked. If you want to prove these sources wrong scan images of the credits in the CD booklets and show them to us and we will delete the sources. Skeeker [Talk] 20:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

AllMusic has been shown to be unreliable on several occasions and, just like any source, should not be considered infallible. violet/riga (t) 20:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


Violet/riga: I'm willing to concede your information is correct. However, being a member of a band and touring with a band does not mean a musician is credited as a songwriter. Robin Finck was just a part of Nine Inch Nail's live touring ensemble, which is why I left And All That Could Have Been under his discography. It's widely known that Reznor (along with producers and engineers) wrote almost all of Nine Inch Nail's material dating back to the very albums in question. No one is denying that Finck was a member of the band. I am merely contending that he did not contribute to The Downward Spiral or Further Down The Spiral. I was partially incorrect for asserting that he made no contributions on Closer To God, and for that I apologize. He is, in fact, credited on the Memorabilia remix.

My biggest concern was that Bucketheader was using his power to assert control over what was deemed valid. He was so quick to threaten a ban and remove my editing privileges - even going as far as to say I provided no reliable source. It seemed erratic and motivated by a particular bias.

VR2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.156.210.246 (talk) 20:31:11, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

"He was so quick to threaten a ban and remove my editing privileges" Regarding this quote, I had asked you twice not to removed sourced content from wikipedia, you ignored me both times. Afterwards, I placed two template messages on your talk page, which was the correct thing to do - despite being asked numerous times, you removed sourced content from wikipedia, and yes, you don't have a reliable source to back up your edits. Bucketheader 20:36, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
As noted above AllMusic is not really a reliable source. I don't know if VR2007 was aware of this when removing the entries though. Please do try and enter discussions before revert warring though. violet/riga (t) 20:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
There are certainly better ways of handling disputes and this should really have been taken to the talk page by both of you. I'd rather not comment on behaviour as we all act a little badly sometimes - I hope this will be forgotten soon. violet/riga (t) 20:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


What is the best way of resolving this issue? Obviously, Bucketheader and I stand firmly on opposite sides of the spectrum. Since AllMusicGuide and Discog.com are not considered to be 100% reliable, I think the best means of achieving impartiality is to remove the discography section since it is so heavily contested. Until verified information can be presented as a valid source, we should bow out of this argument and remove what could potentially ignite another dispute. If the discography section is removed as an amicable gesture, I will certainly refrain from reverting entries. What do you think? VR2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VR2007 (talk • contribs) 20:47:20, August 19, 2007 (UTC).

This is interesting, though I don't believe it because it fails to mention "Closer to God" isn't mentioned. There are lots of sources I can find on Google that state that NIN are responsible for the "recreation" of various songs on Further, and since Finck was a member of NIN then they also say that he was part of that. I think we need a little prose to discuss this in the article. violet/riga (t) 20:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

See how it refers to Robin Finck as "Group Member" beside The Downward Spiral? It's because he was only a touring member of the band, which is why they also refer to him as "Group Member" next to Guns N' Roses. It's only on Ghosts of Mars that he is credited for "Guitar" - which is, in fact, one of the only 100% verifiable releases that feature Robin Finck as a contributor. The "Recreation" credit next to Further Down The Spiral also leads me to believe they're referring to live performances. However, it doesn't seem sufficient since it's missing what you've already mentioned. VR2007 21:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)VR2007 19 August 2007

If a musician is credited on an album, then it becomes part of their discography, correct? Robin Finck is credited on those albums, therefore they are part of his discography. Bucketheader 21:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
"Hurt" is a live version on Downward, so he would have played guitar for that. I'm not so sure about his credit for Further though. violet/riga (t) 21:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
On Further Down the Spiral, he is credited with recreation (which I assume is just another term for re-mix), as shown on the NIN wiki [5] Bucketheader 21:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Hours before he posted the above information, Bucketheader left the following message on my talk page:

"Regarding Finck's discography, you haven't provided a reliable source to show he isn't credited on those NIN albums. The NIN wiki can be edited by anyone, therefore isn't a reliable source."

First he claimed the NIN wiki page was not reliable since it could be edited by anyone, but now he's using it as a source to argue his point. Do you not see the obvious contradiction? VR2007 21:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I never said that was a reliable source, I merely stated that the NIN wiki stated exactly what he did on the album, whereas allmusic simply described it as 'recreation'. Bucketheader 22:05, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Why did you alter the edit I made? violet/riga already made it clear that AllMusicGuide is not truly reliable. Until one can be found, the discography should not be posted. There are too many conflicting sources that make it impossible to formulate a non-biased account of Finck's creative history. VR2007 22:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Allmusic is a reliable source. How is including a discography with using a reliable source being biased? Only two relaible sources have been presented so far, MSN and allmusic, both of which confirm Finck's discography. Bucketheader 22:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
AllMusic has been found to have several errors and is not a fully trusted site. The MSN link is odd because it omits Closer to God. violet/riga (t) 07:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)