Talk:Robin (comics)

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Contents 1 Canonical? 2 earth 2 - noncanonical? SAVE Earth 2!!! 3 separate pages 4 robin's namesake - robinhood? 5 separators 6 Spoiler Warning 7 All Star Robin 8 Robin 3000 9 Timothy "Jeff" Drake 10 Tim's combat skills 11 Why the Revert War 12 Merge proposal: Just Imagine Stan Lee's Robin 12.1 Survey 12.2 Discussion 13 Split proposal: other continuity Robins 13.1 Survey II 13.2 Discussion II 14 Split 15 Earth-Two 15.1 Survey III 16 Comic Book Infobox 17 Robin: Gayest of all Gothamites? FBI Involvement? 18 Homosexual interpretation section 19 RFC: Robin (Earth-Two) 20 Dick Grayson's Boy Wonder place in new continuity 21 Redbird. 22 What The Flip? 23 Film portrayal 24 Merge Robin's costume 25 Vandalism.

[edit] Canonical?

"Both of these stories take place in a future that has not come to pass in current DC continuity, and so neither is considered canonical." appears in this article, however in the Batman: The Dark Knight Returns article it says "The Dark Knight Returns takes place in a timeline that has not come to pass in the continuity of current DC Comics, but is still considered at least partially canon as it makes use of post-Crisis characters." Which one do I belive, and should this be renedered similar over both articles? Zombiebaron 01:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey. Furst, might be a better idea to add your comment to the bottom of the page next time. Anyway, a simple explanation of "the wikipedian in charge didn't know any better (at the time)" might apply to the B:tDKr, article. Neither is really wrong, though. Confusing, perhaps, but not wrong. Believe this one, I guess. I'll make a few changes to the other article to make it clearer. ACS (Wikipedian) 03:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, what a strange wiki...new stuff on the bottom 'e says...anyway thanks. Zombiebaron 03:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] earth 2 - noncanonical? SAVE Earth 2!!!

Should Robin (Dick Greyson) of Earth 2 be in the concanon section? Earh 2 was and I would assume IS canonical still (although no longer in existance, correct me if i'm wrong.) --R66y 10:37, Jan 17, 2006

Most definately! Infinite Crisis has Kal-El speaking about the E2 Grayson. In general, I beleve E2 heroes should be given their due as they have shaped the contempo characters. I would also like to add that it would interesting if someone could locate an image of Grayson in his Batman-esque costume of the late-70s. 04:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

"Infinite Crisis has Kal-El speaking about the E2 Grayson." Where does this appear? --Chris Griswold 11:16, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

QUOTE from the article: ". Kal-L, the Earth-Two Superman, indicated that Richard Grayson in his world was not a better man than the one in Earth-One (Nightwing)." My point is, Earth 2 may not exist in the minds of most of the post-Crisis denizens, but it was a reality that effected the broader DCU. This is unlike the Robin of Frank Miller's Batman universe or the various Elseworlds incarantion. I would yes to canonical. Jackbox1971 20:45, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Fine, but where does Kal-El talk about him? --Chris Griswold 22:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I realize now what the confussion is. I sloppily mentioned Kal-El (Earth 1) when I meant Kal-L. But my point is that DC seems to have no qualms about bringing the multiverse denizens back to speak of the dead. To this degree, I feel that a character who existed in the multiverse who has not been retconed should be accepted as canonical. Jackbox1971 00:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] separate pages

I agree also. Other heroes with various incarnations get seperate pages. So should the Robins. Especially Dick, being that he has come into his own.
Giant89

I agree with dr bats

Should each of the Robins get their own entry? Tim Drake would get the main entry, Dick would get 'Nightwing', Jason Todd could be just 'Jason Todd,' and there's already a Spoiler entry for Stephanie.

Thoughts? --DrBat 14:18, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and split Grayson and Drake into their own articles.--Kross 09:00, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] robin's namesake - robinhood?

contents copied over from Talk:Cartoon characters named after people

Robin is named after Robin Hood? Any evidence to support this? Batman is named after a flying animal, so it seems logical that his partner would also be named after a flying animal. ike9898 16:00, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)~

You are right too ! Robin (comics) has the following line :

"The name "Robin the Boy Wonder" and the medieval look of the original costume was taken both from the semi-legendary hero of the poor, Robin Hood, as well as the red-breasted American Robin, which continued the "flying animal" motif of Batman. " Jay 16:06, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I was looking for evidence stronger than a quote from Wikipedia. Like for example something from the comic itself or from one of the creators that indicates that Robin Hood is what they had in mind. ike9898 14:47, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)

Concerning the controversy with the new animated teen titan, it would seem that the Robin in this series is Dick Grayson. In the episode where Starfire goes to the future, she encounters Robin in the form of Nightwing. --Yarvin 03:58, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I believe the creators have said that he is neither dick greyson or jason todd. he seems to be a little of both. his history seems to be dick greyson's (starfire romance, being leader of teen titans (essentially the new teen titans of the '80s) also, the bat-imp character "larry" was originally called nosyarg kcid, or somthing like that. but his character, i believe, is supposed to be just as much tim drake as it is supposed to be dick greyson.

Also, interestingly (now this is neither here nor there in this particular discussion) the creators have chosen to distance him from batman, never using the name batman in the series...

--R66y 10:32, 17 Jan 2006

Back to the Robin Hoodconfusion, Detective Comics 38 briefly mentioned him (don't remember the exact sentence). So yes, it would seem that there is a connection.---SA-

Unfortunately I don't have issue numbers to quote you. However in the DC Heroes RPG 1st Edition Batman Sourcebook Nightwing's write up features a page from a DC Comic (I think it's from The Untold Legend of Batman). In one panel Batman presents Dick with the name and costume of Robin. Dick says, "It's perfect! The legendary Robon Hood was always one of my favorite heroes." Outside of comics I can quote Bob Kane's autobiography, Batman & Me. On page 46 Kane writes, "I named him after Robin Hood, whom I loved as a kid, as played on the screen by Fairbanks. Both Robins were crusaders, fighting against the forces of evil. Robin Hood fought against injustice in the Sgerwood Forest of King Arthur's day, while Robin battled contemporary crime in Gotham Cuty. I even dressed Robin in the tunic, cape, and shoes of Robin Hood's era, and drew his trunks to be like chain mail." It seems to me that Fairbanks was Kane's favorite actor. He based Batman on Fairbank's Zorro, and Robin on his Robin Hood. --Talison 06:47, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd just like come in and say that on page three of Dectective Comics #38 (First apperance), on the lower right-hand corner they state this: "And thus Dick Grayson, by the hand of fate, istransformed into that astonishing phenomon that young robinhood of today -- ROBIN THE BOY WONDER!" So this may or may not be proof enough for you. If you wish, I can take a screengrab.

[edit] separators

It seems like the separators come and go on a whim. Can we get some discussion here about whether or not they should be put in or not? I personally like them, as it causes the infoboxes to line up with the right paragraph. For example, right now, the Jason Todd infobox bleeds about halfway down the Tim Drake section, and then his infobox starts later. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:14, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

I put them back in there. I don't know why anyone would take them out, unless they didn't know what they were for. KramarDanIkabu 17:19, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Carrie Kelly is the real 4th robin that whole cannon non-cannon talk is bs sorry! she appeared as the first female and todd's death was refreanced to -- Mjolnir131

And DKR isn't canon. Its an elseworlds title.--Kross | Talk 10:35, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

no it's not elsworlds. elseworlds did not start until 1994 DKR was 86

It's still an alternate reality. It's not in continuity. --DrBat 11:13, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

DKR has been sited many times as one of the basis for the Elseworld's line. --Talison 06:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Elseworlds was started in 1991 with the logo (Brian Boru is Awesome)

[edit] Spoiler Warning

I'll go ahead and add a spoiler warning before the section, as it explicitly refers to the death of Jason Todd, and other major plot elements.

[edit] All Star Robin

All star batman and robin is only on issue #3 and dick hasn't even appeared as robin yet. i don't think this version needs his own page. at least, not yet. Carrie Kelly doesn't even have her own page and i think she (currently) has more signifigance that All-Star Robin.

[edit] Robin 3000

Where is the Blond haired, Gun using, Robin of the Future?

[edit] Timothy "Jeff" Drake

I read Batman #441 - the issue in which Dick Grayson calls Tim "Jeff" - yesterday, and it is clear to me that it in no way refers to it being his middle name. If anything, it looks like an editorial error that - who knows? - may be attributed to Tim's being a new character who probably had a number of proposed names. If anyone wants it, I can upload a scan of the Jeff panel. --Chris Griswold 07:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• Yes please. I think you should write a section on it too. Zombiebaron 14:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tim's combat skills

I don’t understand what is meant by 'Despite his combat skills not being the match of Grayson's (although there are some intimations that they are far superior to Todd's)'. If it refers to comparing Tim to Dick and Jason when they were robin then that would be ok but could be made clearer. If it compares to them at present then that’s just crap issue 29 of the Teens Titians Jason Todd beats Tim pretty bad and has showed himself to be almost at match to batman and Dick in several issues of batman and nightwing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Majinginyu (talk • contribs) .

I changed it to (although there are some intimations that they are far superior to Todd's when he was Robin) - Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 00:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why the Revert War

After my initial confusion regarding the revert-battles going on with the JSA & JLA catagory adds/deletes, I think I've struck upon the reason for it; Earth-2 Robin. I know at least he was in the JSA. Of course, since the continuity Robin isn't nor has he ever been, I certainly don't think that catagorization is correct, but I wonder if it is at the root of this? --mordicai. 16:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

That's not the issue. A user is trying to imply categories which are not representitive of the mainstream Robin, yes. However, they are also doing it without making any attempt discuss the matter or taking note of a recent ruling on categorization for articles about a legacy. Basically, it's effective vandalism and if they don't stop I'll have to report them. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 16:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split proposal: other continuity Robins

[edit] Split

Well, I've split off data into what has become alternate versions of Robin and Robin in other media. I've also made a template for the big R and moved a few categories. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Nice job : )

Personally, I think we can (and should) entirely remove the alternate and media sections from this page, and just have the two links at the bottom under "see also". - jc37 00:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. I never thought of that. I guess that's better than stars and lists. Done. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Earth-Two

In recent times, I have come upon a stub-length article dedicated exclusively to the Earth-Two Robin. I fear the main editor of that article might not see why I have decided to redirect it to "Robin (comics)", and reverse my edit, so I'm posting this here with hope of confirming my assumption that most editors would agree on merging an article about Earth-Two Robin with either "Robin (comics)" or "Alternate versions of Robin". Please consider the following factors: 1- The article which I redirected here had been copied almost in its entirety from the "Batman (Earth-Two)" article, with no sign of an "in use" template or something like that to mark the editor's intentions to actually erase the parts not about the Earth-Two Robin. 2 - The Earth-Two Robin article suffered something suffered by most Earth-Two articles at some point of their history: editors (subjectively) treat the article's subject as the original "superseded" Golden Age version, rather than as a Silver Age creation intended to solve how an ongoing incarnation of a character served with both the Justice Society and the Justice League. 3 - Most of Robin's Golden Age career is still attributed to the mainstream Dick Grayson (as evidenced by "52", week 30), though presumably somehow queezed into the Silver/Modern age timeline. All you can say about Earth-Two Dick Grayson which is not redundant when you already have a section about Robin in the Golden Age is: "Joins the Justice Society. Becomes ambassador to South Africa. Dies in Crisis". Three sentences does not warrant an article. So, what does everyone else think? --Ace ETP 04:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

There are over two dozen published silver age tales of this version of Robin, including a JLA/JSA crossover in which they two appeared SIDE-BY-SIDE. Definitely this article including info box needs to be cleaned up...however that does not negate the fact that the publisher treated these characters separate in the Silver Age. Superman (Kal-L) and Batman (Earth-Two) were distinctly written, what is different about this version of Robin? And why is this version not considered under the above split vote of Robin in other continuities? Doesn't pre-Crisis Silver Age count? NetK 18:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The sad fact is that the Earth-Two Robin isn't that much of a character. As Ace EPT points out, his biggest function was to rationalize the 1940s stories in the 1960s. Beyond that, there rally isn't much, if anything, to create an article out of. Unless, of course, you want to argue inclusion in the cats "Fictional ambassadors" and "Fictional lawyers".

Slight side note: Could someone please explain to me, in a clear proper manner, why there is a push for the "clone" characters (those that have identical codenames and alter egos on Earth-One and Earth-Two) to be split into 2 separate articles? That is something that feels to me as being an in-continuity POV decision. — J Greb 19:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

And it creates a precedent for unnecessary articles such as "Alfred (Earth-Two)" or "Catwoman (Earth-Two)", listing those characters minimal differences to their mainstream counterparts. All-Star Dick Grayson has probably appeared on more individual pages than the Earth-Two Robin, but he does not have his own article for obvious reasons. I propose the following compromise: creating a section about the Earth-Two Robin in the Dick Grayson article, or expanding this article's section about him (and adding the Fictional ambassadors" and "Fictional lawyers" categories to whichever article becomes Earth-Two Robin's new home. --Ace ETP 21:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I would prefer that, across the board. The only two character I can think of where the shave off of the Earth-Two information makes sense, for reasons noted above, are Superman and Batamn. For the rest of the DC properties that "survived" through the 1950s it becomes part of the publication history. — J Greb 21:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Dick Grayson aka Robin of Earth-Two had several notable distinctions from the Earth-One version. For instance: 1.) he was an ambassador, 2.) he was an attorney, 3.) he was a member of his mentor's team, something the then-Robin of Earth-One never laid claim to. He was key to several plot points involving the Earth-Two Batman, for which an article is somehow merited without question, including Batman's diary which had large ramifications on the pre-Crisis universe. This Robin was shown side-by-side with the Justice Society, with Bruce Wayne/Batman (of both worlds), of Superman (of both worlds)...and these all merit articles even though we could simply tuck their entries neatly into the modern day versions. This insistence to subdue creating viable entries escapes me...there is positively no harm merited from creating a Robin entry. Further, I am simply mystified why entries to first Kal-L...then two months ago Batman (Earth-Two). This is NOT spliting an article (Robin) nor of creating a article of a minor with few published appearences. This is noting specifically the distinguishing characteristics that make this version separate. NetK 23:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Bats and Dick were both on the Outsiders. Maybe not at the same time, but still. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 23:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

NetK's comment is that, at the time that the Earth-Two Robin was created and put into the JSA, this was the first time a sidekick was shown to have been "promoted" and "replace" his/her mentor. Any comparison to the current Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson is 40+ years after the fact.
NetK, I need you to clarify something: are you saying you are for or against the moving of the Earth-Two "clone" characters to their own, separate articles? It's hard to see from your post above if you are complaining that Robin isn't being allowed to follow the Batman and Superman examples, or if you disagree with the splits to the Batman and Superman articles. — J Greb 02:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

J Greb, I welcome the fact that Superman (Kal-L) and Batman (Earth-Two) have been created...and have been allowed to exist without dispute. My sole complaint would seem to be the attack on my own contribution in the same vein using the exact same criteria and methodology used to create the other two entries. Each article should be judged by itself as to whether it should or shouldn't exist...however the fact that objectively Robin (Earth-Two) has had even more published appearences than has Batman (Earth-Two)...my only conclusion for the dispute over this article is because I myself had created it. I can see no other rationale. NetK 05:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

For my part, it is not the person proposing the articles, but the articles themselves.
I can see the rationales for the Superman and Batman splits. In the case of Superman, DC went out of its way to produce material featuring the E-2 character after he was introduced in the pages of Justice League of America and, with both Crisis and Infinite Crisis kept him more or less in a pivotal role. That made for a natural "cleave point" in a over-large article. It is similar to the logic used to cleave off the Clark Kent article.
The case for Batman is slimmer, but still rests on an over large base article. The difference of character, retirement, family, and death provided a way to split off some of the information.
Dick Grayson lacks size to justify a split, and the Earth-Two character was for all intents and purposes the same as the Earth-One character. There are minor addendum: team memberships, costume changes, and professions, but much less than in the other two examples.
Personally, I don't like the splits in the Superman and Batman articles. I can accept the reasons why the happened, but I believe it sets a bad precedent. To me, these three, along with the other "clones", should have the publication history laid out in one article, with the creation of the Earth-Two versions placed in context with everything else. For Dick Grayson that would mean, 1) a section detailing the differences and mention why DC created the character for the JLA/JSA crossover, and 2) the tweaking of the Infobox to show the historical first appearance, the current revision's first appearance, and all the teams with a note reference to the E-2 section for the appropriate teams. — J Greb 06:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

The Earth-Two Robin redirects have been reverted back to their article iterations without the discussion being finalized. I think we can all agree this situation is analogous to the one which lead to Wikipedia Comics Project members decreeing that Ultimate Marvel character articles should be merged with the mainstream Marvel ones. As the "Robin (comics)" article treats the Pre-Crisis Bruce Wayne and Earth-Two Dick Grayson differently than the other alternate universe Robins, I think it would be best to create a section about the Earth-Two Robin over at the Dick Grayson article, and link there from this page. Individual articles for the two Graysons are redundant, since their first twenty-five years of existance are exactly the same, and the later divergences can be summed up with three or four sentences. Oh, and by the way, the Earth-One/Post-Crisis Bats and Dick have both been members of the Justice League and the Outsiders. --Ace ETP 21:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey III

[edit] Comic Book Infobox

I deliberately added this here since it is the most logical place to look for title information named after the character. Also placed it next to the Drake section since it relates most closely to him. — J Greb 06:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Robin: Gayest of all Gothamites? FBI Involvement?

I move that the article include some discussion of whether Robin was intended to be a gay character.

Just look in Detective Comics #38, April 1940, at the splash page for the first Robin story, and you will see what I mean. If Bob Kane didn't mean for Robin to seem gay in that picture and the story that follows, I suspect there may have been some FBI sabotage going on in Batman comics. Consider that an FBI agent gets killed in the penultimate issue to the first Robin story, Detective Comics #36. The FBI was often known to get involved in popular culture, and maybe they didn't like masked vigilantes in stories where g-men die, so they applied some muscle and put Robin into the mythos to sabotage it by making the whole thing seem kind of "queer."

Honestly, no joking or trolling, the appearance of Robin in Detective #38 has got to be the worst character choice in the history of comics. I have too much respect for the creators of Batman to believe that they would think a street-fighter who dresses in dark colors as camoflauge for nighttime prowls of Crime Alley would bring along a boy partner dressed in bright orange and green who fights with a slingshot. It's either a bad joke that got out of hand or somebody powerful was trying to ruin the whole Batman myth before it got too popular.

And, yes, I do know what an audience surrogate is. But what red-blooded American boy wants to be Robin?!

There's something very odd about this character.

Arkhamite 01:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Go read the Batman page for discussion of homosexual interpretations of the Dynamic Duo. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 02:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Troll or no, you're certainly biased. And you seem to have the wrong perception of Wikipedia. We don't publish our own opinions or original research. Articles aren't for "discussing" anything, but for stating the facts as verifiably as possible. Nothing verifiable about this "sabotage" you theorize. So, don't worry about the article. Leave it to us real, neutral Wikipedians, 'kay?

Oh, and don't forget to take your meds. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 03:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that little personal attack, Ace of Aces. Really made my day.

I meant "discussion" in an article in the sense of "analysis" or "interpretation", not "debate". In case you are having trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality, Robin is a fictional character, like Hamlet or Ebenezer Scrooge. Just about every Wikipedia article on a fictional character includes critical interpretation and analysis. So what makes the question of whether Robin appears as or was intended to be a gay character any different from the following passage from the Hamlet article?

We are at the heart of a [sic] oedipal [sic] tragedy and the very ambivalence of his desires makes it altogether impossible for him to cope.

I look forward to more tutorial and psychiatric advice from "real Wikipedians" as I learn how this service operates.

Arkhamite 18:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Settle down everyone. Assume Good Faith and lets be constructive.

Can Robin (Dick Grayson) be viewed as gay? Sure. But it's subjective and it's not in 'compliance' with how he's been portrayed. Dick, Jason and Tim (and Stephanie!) have all been shown as practicing heterosexuals. Interpretations based on their costumes as well as the closeness between young boys and their adoptive father have no basis in the internal reality shown in the comics. What your suggesting, Arkhamite, has been brought up before, normally by people itching for a fight. It's also original research. It's the sort of thing you should write a paper on, and if it gets published, then you'll possibly be cited as a source. But as it stands, Robin, in all four mainstream incarnations, is heterosexual. There is no conspiracy nor is there a cover up. If you see Robin as gay, well, that's your prerogative, but there's no in-universe substance to back you up. Dick, Jason, Tim and Stephanie were all written to be heterosexual. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 18:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

That's what they want you to think ;-) Paper forthcoming, but don't be surprised if someone else beats me to it with a Freedom of Information Act disclosure. Not all of Director Hoover's files were destroyed when he died.

Arkhamite 18:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Then 'they' have done such a good job that 30 years of reading Batman and Robin has been edited such that I've never seen HoYay between them. I'm done here. If you want to keep up your unfounded original research, please don't do it on Wikipedia. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 19:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't take orders from anonymous internet gurus. Your disingenuous inference that all I have argued is that Batman and Robin are sexually involved indicates to me that you are the one interested in enforcing your personal point of view, based on those 30 years of what amounts to original research. I have yet to modify the actual content of a single article, merely to suggest changes on the discussion pages or revert vandalism. Expect more of whatever you call what I do on any Wikipedia discussion page I see fit. Discussion pages are for discussion, not shouting down reasonable suggestions.

And I'm serious about the FOIA stuff. Don't you think that if such a secret as the one I suggest did exist, the forces protecting the secret might be watching a page like this? In that case, my postings are not original research, but in fact the opposite: calls for assistance from those who control primary source material.

Geez, talk about Assume Good Faith. This is like discussing biology with Jerry Falwell.

Arkhamite 19:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

On that sad note, I'd say that we're done here. You have no verifiable contributions to make, and no one has to do anything but ignore you. Like I said before, troll or no, you're biased. This little "discussion" has only proven that and so many more negative...qualities. We can't tell you what to do, but I'd advise you keep these theories to yourself. Talk pages, like articles, can be reverted and protected to avoid misuse. Similarly, abusers can be blocked if they grow to be unreasonable, persistant and intolerable. Good day to you, sir. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 19:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, a WikiThreat. You'll forgive me if I don't take your advice. Nothing I have posted has been abuse, and all of it has been within the Terms of Service. Theory is as theory does.

Arkhamite 19:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Arkhamite, in response to your comment: "Theory is as theory does"...that is precisely why there is a dispute. However radical an entry is, the determining factor on Wikipedia is whether there is documentation outside of original research i.e. theory that this has been addressed. If there has than it could justifiably be considered for inclusion in the article. If it is simply a theory that you are proposing without outside research, then it is original research which is a no-no hear. Not because of what any of us say, simply because of the terms of service. NetK 19:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll expect some changes in the lengthy, quite unverifiable psychoanalytical discussion of the fictional character Hamlet's motivations then. And I see nothing in the three guidelines in the Terms of Service forbidding me from utilizing non-article discussion pages to suggest that the analytical point I propose is as verifiable as the prevailing paradigm. Especially since this question of "gayness" in the Batman mythos has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere. My inclusion of the FBI theory was merely a logical extension of "is?" to "why is?", and I never called for it to be included in the article.

I admit paradigmatic challenges are difficult to swallow, but I clearly cited the issues of Detective Comics as original source material in issuing this suggestion. Furthermore, as pointed out previously in this thread, there is a lengthy discussion in the Batman article on the character's sexual orientation. Has Robin threatened to bring a libel suit, or am I missing something here?

Arkhamite 20:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Then go take it to the Hamlet page. Your use of random Wikipedia pages to make ridiculous points about the rest of wikipedia, as you're doing on the Talk:Adolf Hitler page regarding whether or not the Joan of Arc page is accurate about her insanity, is childish, and a definite violation of WP:POINT, whther or not you think you're fully within TOS. I recommend you take issues about Hamlet up on HIS talk page, and issues with Joan of Arc over to HER page. Examining your recent contrib history, you seem to have issue s with WP:POINT, so read up on it, and stop acting in bad faith on other pages. We are not going to go fight your battles, and we're not going to run over to those pages and say 'hey, come get your troll'. We will ignore you and revert any unfounded edits regarding this or any other 'theories' you have about the Illuminati, or ZOG, or whatever tinfoil hat you're wearing. ThuranX 00:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Man, all this tough talk over a sissy with a slingshot. What a lame encyclopedia.

Arkhamite 01:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Homosexual interpretation section

Admittedly ripping from Batman, I offer to the article a "homosexual interpretations" section. I rewrote and removed data as needed, trying to focus on Robin rather than Bats and be mindful that Robin hasn't always been a guy. My only hope is that it doesn't feed trolls. *Looks up* Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 21:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it was very well done. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 00:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The Batman version and this version are pretty long... maybe we should have a whole page on gay Batman --Exvicious // + @ 19:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Please no. From what I had to work with, I think the Batman article's section could use some work. Like, copyeditting, focus and shortening. Furthermore, I don't think the notability or room for growth is there. This a minority view, and one DC denounces. Unless Arkhamite comes back with hard evidence or some new "controversy" erupts, the page would just sort of sit there. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 19:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually for splitting it into 'Homosexual Interpretations in Comics.' Batman's the big one, but there's also 'Wonder Woman's a lesbian!' and others who are perceived as gay based on <whatever>. Batman's big because of Seduction of the innocent, but it would make for a good base article. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 15:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd support that. How about: Homosexual interpretations of characters in comics? And once you start that article you may find it growing to the point of needing to split off Homosexual interpretations of Batman and Robin. - jc37 15:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Since the section already exists on Batman's page, I think the section here needs to be smaller and refer readers the section of that page. Duggy 1138 (talk) 06:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RFC: Robin (Earth-Two)

An RFC has been issued for this page. Please allow it to exist during this process. Thank you. Netkinetic | T / C / @ 05:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Where is the RfC? - Peregrine Fisher 05:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. After a little fishing: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics#Request_for_Comment: Robin (Earth-Two). Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 05:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• The page exists whether it is a redirect or an article. Hiding Talk 13:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • By redirecting this page during mid-RFC it will create an unnecessary bias against it.Netkinetic | T / C / @ 18:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
    • That argument cuts both ways. Maybe we could establish the article as a redirect with your version a temp page, allowing people to see both approaches? Just a thought. Hiding Talk 16:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dick Grayson's Boy Wonder place in new continuity

It is of some note that in the post-crisis/zero-hour/infinite crisis continuity there are very (very very) few stories featuring the adventures of Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson(as Batman and Robin).

In fact it is interesting to note that Robin (the original Boy Wonder - Dick Grayson) was markedly absent from 'Batman: Lengends of the Dark Night' - a publication which was intended to fill in the blanks of Batman's post original crisis history. So far Grayson's adventures of Robin have also not featured in Batman Confidential (though this comic is still in its early days). And 'All Star Batman and Robin' is markedly out of continuity.

In fact, one could probably easily name the in-continuity stories which show how the relationship between Bruce and Dick developed in the early years (in both their private lives and as crime-fighters): Dark Justice & the 'Robin: Year One' Robin annual + one or two others.

I'm not sure how such a point could be made within this article. But I'm sure there is a point somewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.106.192.55 (talk) 18:47:59, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redbird.

Someone needs to add a section about the Redbird vehicle. I don't really know know how but i'll try. The article about it is orphaned.1 wit da force 03:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)1 wit da force

[edit] What The Flip?

Homosexual interpretations about the Boy Wonder at our college have been part of the academic study of Batman and Robin since psychologist Fredric Wertham asserted in Seduction of the Innocent that his research confirmed "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual." Wertham wrote, "Only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend 'Robin.'"[4] Wertham claimed his studies of homosexual youths discovered that "The Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious."[5] The use of 'our' is POV, and this whole thing is the reason OR became against WP rules. Deleted. ~~Lazyguythewerewolf . Rawr. 20:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Film portrayal

I put his appearances in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.I wonder why no one has done that... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.103.108.250 (talk) 19:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It's listed in the Robin in other media page, which there is a link to in the alternate versions section, although there should be something briefly summarizing his appearances in other media. For now, I removed it, as where you put it was talking about the comic book version. I'll start working on an "other media" section. Anakinjmt 20:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Robin's costume

-Nomination- the article lists in a limited capacity to apparell of the many Robins, which could easily and seemlessly be incorperated into the Robin main article. The article draws primarily from fansites, which are not qualified sources. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC).

• Merge though it might be worthwhile to go over the the articles and sections that are {{main}} linked to to see if the information is already there as well as this article. And it's a bit disconcerting that every major section of the costume article, and most of the subs, are referrals to other articles. - J Greb (talk) 23:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep This is a significant article on its own merits, and the main article is a bit to big to take on any additional material (albeit still a bit bare bones in Robin's costume, admittedly).Netkinetic ^(t/c/@) 05:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete The costume page is meaningless without pictures and with pictures it would look more like a catalogue than an encylopedia entry. Duggy 1138 (talk) 13:26, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
• Merge, article seems to be based on speculation. Hiding T 13:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, fan sites are not reliable sources, and there's not much significance to the variations that can't be better presented in character articles. Pairadox (talk) 07:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

• comment- the Robin article is 16Kib long, I don't feel there is a size issue incorporated a max of 6kib of infor from the costume page (likely portions to be trimmed that are original research or from fan site). I question what material in the costume article would be significant outside the context of the Robin article, and not derived from fansite or original research. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 18:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC).

• Delete there is no point to the costume page. Any significant information (which I don't believe there is any) regarding costume changes should be mentioned in the individual character's articles (Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown). There is no reason to devote an entire article or even a section to the main article which would be considered trivia. Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 10:17, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• I've nominated it for deletion. I've worked on improving the page, but it can't be done. There's nothing that really can or needs to be added to this page and I feel that consensus here is towards Delete. All input welcome.

Duggy 1138 (talk) 06:23, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism.

It's not the vandalism that I annoys me as much as the sheer unoriginality of it. "Robin is gay hahaha". Oh, get over it. Duggy 1138 (talk) 03:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)