Talk:Robert W. Welch Jr.
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[edit] Autobiography extremely dubious?
The self-written autobiography of Robert Welch is as reliable and objective as his written biography of John Birch. Extremely dubious. For one thing, I don't think anyone has yet proved conclusively that John Birch ever did, in fact, exist.
Note that John Birch was the namesake of the Birch Society, because he was "the first casualty of World War III." Now recall, that the FIRST casualty of War is "The TRUTH". And you will see what it must really mean. Welch's hyperbole & exaggeration is well known, along with many false statements & distortions of fact. Reading his biography, where he read well & performed algebraic equations by age 6, & began high school at age 10, etc --- by being "homeschooled" by his mother. What was the problem? Did they not have any public schools back then? By the writings of Laura Ingalls Wilder, we know there were "Little Houses" & schools on the Prairie in the 1800's.
If Welch was so well-informed & educated in elite colleges, why does he not know the fundamentals of our American Government? This nation was formed as a Democracy by our Founding Fathers, & yet Welch insists that this nation is "not a democracy, & was not ever intended to be a democracy", and that "democracy is the worst form of government". By this statement (in his Blue Book) he PROVES that he does not have any accurate knowledge of our early American history & the origin of our govt. He uses the same MO as the Communist Party (secret cells & subversion, along with a massive propaganda effort) to manipulate the opinion & voting results of his members & the rest of America. One of the earliest goals of the JBS was to take over the Republican Party, & use it as a vehicle to gain control over the US govt. He had well succeeded by 1964 when Barry Goldwater, (on Executive Council of the Birch Society) ran as GOP Presidential candidate. Goldwater was not elected, partially due to his desire to "nuke Cuba" -- but other Birchers in the GOP were successful President candidates. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, 2 George Bushes. So the Birch goal of "taking over" the GOP was quite successful.
I have never heard where any independent reporter has researched the REAL biography of either Robert Welch, OR John Birch. But I do know that the John Birch University, later was named after Robert Welch. It was like he was operating undercover (using a fake pseudonym) all those years, preferring to be in the background, pulling the puppet strings unseen.
The JBS operated as a monolithic structure, with all power (total control) at the TOP, which of course was Robert Welch himself. He allowed no debates in his organization --- "no 2 sides to every issue", or dissent was allowed. He also controlled the opinions & voting activity & reading habits of his members.
Using the secret cells, subversion tactics & propaganda methods of Lenin, Marx, & Hitler, he had made an ominous structure to attack the American way of life, hidden in plain sight. Members were told to "take over" PTA's, to get rid of Communist books like "Animal Farm" or "1984" by George Orwell. (These books are actually a description of the horrors of Fascism, & warn of the dangers from Communism). Also, members were told to "take over" churches as quickly as possible to ensure that the message coming over the pulpit was JBS propaganda instead of gospel.
After 37 years of JBS/GOP gaining political strength & power in America, what have we come to? We have had 20 years of Rush Limbaugh propaganda by the GOP on the airwaves, continually distorting the facts & pushing the right wing agenda. We have had such extensive "liberal bashing" that the Democratic Party cannot get any message out. The media has been largely controlled by the corporate right wing, & the Constitution is being weakened, almost dissolved, by the Patriot Act. Democracy itself is endangered by this, as well as bizarre election anomalies, such as registration rigging, & questionable software in the e-voting machines manufactured by Bush supporters.
Our economy is in shambles, while we are in huge debt to Red Communist China (which if we were not in a BANKRUPT state, WHY would we borrow money from them?) A stable independent Economy of the World's biggest super-power does NOT need to "borrow" money.
GOP operatives encourage corporate crooks who are making great profits off an illegitimate War in Iraq, and meanwhile endangering our most precious resource, our young soldiers. American boys and girls, in the prime of their lives, sacrificed on the altar of intense & unsatiable Greed. Greed for money and OIL.
Our jobs are being shipped overseas, our unions are being splintered, & massive millions of illegal aliens are being welcomed (terrorist or not) into our sacred borders, where they commit crimes, find a way to get onto welfare, & spread disease. The GOP does nothing to stop them, as they destroy the fabric of this nation, & bankrupt our social resources, so our true American citizens cannot get the benefits they are qualified to get. The corporate motive of GREED alone, is not sufficient to explain this allowance of massive infiltration of illegal Latinos, who often come here to deal drugs. Just getting laborers who will work for smaller wages, would not justify the danger & damage to our whole govt structure, & the eventual downfall of our economy. Eventual collapse, which will lead to our Power given to Communist Red China, who is now threatening us with nuclear attack with missiles. NOW IT SHOULD BE APPARENT, that the one entity who was working all along, to lead us into a New World Order, making us into a Fascist Police State, taking away our rights, draining our economy, destroying our govt from within, was the John Birch Society, who took over the GOP between 1958 & 1964. Its corporate sponsors, planted GOP Congressmen and judges, propaganda network (bigger than anything that Goebbels could have imagined) once they got into the highest offices in the land, promptly began planning WAR, destruction of our Constitution, Looting of our state & federal Treasury, massive embezzlement from corporations & local govt offices. The whole picture becomes clear --- the best place for the Communists to hide & silently gain power, was in plain sight, acting as an Anti-Communist group.
As J. Edgar Hoover said in his book "Masters of Deceit" -- "The best place for the Communists to hide is in the right wing, because nobody is looking for them there."
The 47 year old conspiracy has taken control & it may well be too late to stop it. May God Help Us All. And God Bless the United States of America.
- While I'm more of a fellow who contributes more to Uncyclopedia than Wikipedia, nonetheless, I still agree that this argued is bias. However, I have some problems of your critque of Robert Welch Jr.
- First, you argue how he has no understanding of the fundamentals of American government and bash how he refuses to accept America as a "democracy." I will give you or any other Wikipedian $100 dollars American if you can show to me the words "democracy" in the United States constitution. By the way, good luck with that because while you'll find the words "republican form of government" (Article 6, I believe), you will in no way find the word "democracy" in it. If you read the Federalist Papers, you'll find plenty of quotes from Madison, Hamilton, and Jay saying how democracy is tyranny of the masses (their words too, I believe). Robert Welch Jr. was aware of this fact and strived with the John Birch Society to bring back the United States back to its republican roots.
- Furthermore, blaming the current situation with the right wing on the John Birch Society is a tad much. The John Birch Society holds the belief that even such conservatives as Nixon, Reagan, and Bush Sr. and George W. Bush are all part of the "establishment" and in on the "conspiracy." They most likely did their part but I would not blame them solely and they certaintly do not agree with the current administration.
- I am not a member of the John Birch Society, nor am I a right wing nutjob, and why I am not registered is because I simply do not feel I have enough to contribute to Wikipedia by registering an account.
- All that aside, this could use a nice, neutral point of view. This looks like it was ripped off the Robert Welch University website. Sheesh. --24.59.10.167 20:28, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
- It should be noted here that the existence of John Birch himself is not really in doubt, being corroborated by individuals such as Jimmy Doolittle, and the Wikipedia article is now fully fleshed out and should impeach this particular claim. --Dhartung | Talk 07:36, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
wrt the preceding soliloquy: 1100+ words and no citations? Does that belong anywhere on Wikipedia? ManicDee 05:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Full revision
I've done a full revision of the article. I tried to maintain a NPOV viewpoint. MK2 02:51, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Much better. Way to go, man. --24.59.3.213 21:13, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
But 63.134.129 seems rather insistent on doing this article his way. MK2 02:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
Okay, this is getting ridiculous. For those who haven't been following the edit history, there's an anonymous user who insists on controlling this article. If any changes are made to his or her text (which is copying verbatim off a John Birch Society website) it is deleted. This includes my recent attempt to placate him by leaving his text untouched at the beginning of the article and post my version (which I feel was much less POV) after it. But as compromise doesn't seem to be possible, I'm contacting an admin to have this article locked. MK2 02:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Copyvio
I rolled it back again. To the anonymous user in Terre Haute (who evidently is also User:Western Goals Foundation): maybe you don't realize that we cannot post copyright violations on Wikipedia. The original article was a copy-and-paste from an external website. To post here you have to write in your own words. And writing here is a collaborative enterprise; no one owns articles, and simply reverting to your preferred version, every time someone changes what you have done, or disagrees with you, is not likely to be particularly effective. Thanks! Antandrus (talk) 23:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
- There's a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. MK2 05:27, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Dwight Eisenhower
Roberet Welch is quoted as saying DDE was either a communist agent OR a damn fool.
[edit] And also
accused him of "knowingly receiving and abiding by Communist orders, and consciously serving the Communist conspiracy, for all his adult life." Isn't that what "The Politician" by Robert Welch was about? 68.223.97.32 15:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Oliver?
There are two references in the text to someone named "Oliver," but no explanation of who he actually is. (I suspect they're remnants from a prior edit.) Perhaps they could be either clarified or removed? Just a thought. —Robotech_Master (talk) 04:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
