Talk:Robert Stewart, Viscount Castlereagh

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[edit] Comments 2003-2004

Stewart became the Marquess of Londonderry, but historically he is known as Lord Castlereagh. Using his highest title would give him an unrecognisable name. I have thus used his most commonly recognised title with his name. JtdIrL 19:49 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure that he ever succeeded to his father's title, did he? Deb 19:57 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I just followed what the article stated. JtdIrL 22:01 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, you're right, he was briefly Marquess. Some of the places I looked it up didn't mention it, and some had him down as being the son of the Second Marquess -- possibly because of the earl/marquess change. Deb 17:57 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)
Hm... slight problem, perhaps. His father was also briefly 'Robert Stewart, Viscount Castlereagh' until he was created an earl. Do we just ignore this?Mintguy 23:27, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I'll add a disambig soon. But I have a question: the article mentions that someone told Castlereagh to "consult a physician", and he committed suicide thereafter. Did he commit suicide because he was paranoid and thought "consult a physician" meant something else? Or did he commit suicide because he was insane? I can't really find the reasoning in that in the article, or maybe I'm just not looking hard enough... ugen64 16:28, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)

In terms of the disambiguation, I don't think it's terribly important - his father was only known as Viscount Castlereagh for a year, between 1795 and 1796, when he became Earl of Londonderry. As to the latter part, Castlereagh was being blackmailed for supposedly being a homosexual. The "consult a physician" bit does not seemed to have caused his suicide. it was just the king's response to this news, which was hardly encouraging for Castlereagh. john k 16:37, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I added that final para. IIRC no-one has ever been sure whether there really was a blackmailer ot whether it was in Castlereagh's head. I think perhaps that King was intending suggest that Castlereagh needed to seek medical advice because he thought that the blackmail was in Castlereagh's mind. Or pehaps the words were intended to suggest the Castlereagh consult a physician to "cure him" of homosexual tendencies, or perhaps the King just wanted to get rid of him and the response satistfied either situation. I don't have a citation for the quotes, I have to admit I read it on the web somewhere. Mintguy (T) 18:14, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Leader of the Commons in 1821-22?

How could he have held the post for the last year of his life when he was in the House of Lords? (Technically as the Lord Stewart.) Timrollpickering 16:16, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My mistake - Lord Stewart was his half-brother, the 3rd Marquess, who was already enobled during Castlereagh's lifetime. Timrollpickering 01:39, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yup, yup. Old Charles Stewart was British ambassador to Prussia during the latter part of the Napoleonic Wars. john k 05:04, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Lord Londonderry was able to remain Leader of the House of Commons because he was an Irish peer, not a British one.

[edit] Page Move

General consensus has been that he should remain at Viscount Castlereagh, as that is how he is best known. So I have moved him back. john k 01:50, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Most Honourable

Pray tell, why can't the article begin with his style? Thesocialistesq 04:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] -rah or -rey?

How would one pronounce "Castlereagh"?

"Caa-sul-ray". Proteus (Talk) 15:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA quick-failed

I have reviewed this article according to the GA criteria and have failed the article at this time. The article is lacking any inline citations which is a requirement under the criteria. It would also be beneficial to add an infobox; look at WP:Bio for which one to use. Headings should only have the first word capitalized unless the word is a proper noun (Decline and Death should be Decline and death). Once you have addressed these issues, and have looked over the rest of the criteria, consider renominating again. Also consider getting a peer review to see how the article can be improved further. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 06:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA revisited

Hello, here are my comments.

  • Ensure in-line citations are placed according to WP:CITE. Also, it's a lot nicer if the references are given titles rather than their simple URL's being shown at the bottom in the references section. See WP:REF for more on this.
  • Early career and Ireland section contains several short paragraphs, I'd prefer to see them flowed together to form one or two larger paragraphs.
  • In Back in cabinet and the duel with Canning section, do tensions really cool or do they relax? Just read a bit strange to me!
  • Avoid single-sentence paragraphs.
  • Tenses are a bit mixed, i.e. "Later, he would learn..." vs "Stewart was elected..." for example.
  • (Just an aside, I found abstruse difficult to understand, so I looked it up and it turned out to mean... well... difficult to understand...!)
  • Last half of Decline and death section lacks citation, in particular statements like "His funeral on August 20 was greeted with jeering and insults along the processional route, although not to the level of unanimity projected in the radical press." need attribution otherwise may be considered original research.
  • When using paper references, it's best to actually cite the pages used as well as the books themselves, for a more thorough set of references.
  • Why is this categorised as Category:LGBT history of the United Kingdom?

So, I'll put the GA review on hold for the time being, attend to these points and get back to me for a re-review. Cheers. The Rambling Man 07:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT History

Castlereagh's article is in Category:LGBT history of the United Kingdom because he was blackmailed for being homosexual - and in fact probably committed suicide for that very reason. I've replaced the cat and the project banner. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 07:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well can it be referenced in the text with a citation then please? I can't find any mention of this in the article so it's unclear why it's tagged as such and should be removed unless suitable citable text is added. The Rambling Man 08:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I've added a ref to the quote. Let me know if you think the article (which is now on my watchlist) needs that section to be clearer. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 08:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
That's great, but can we be even more specific in the text so that a non-familiar reader can understand the relevance of the blackmailing was? After all, you can be blackmailed for an awful number of things so I think you should make it clear that it was related to him being (accused of being) homosexual. The Rambling Man 08:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
A little clearer? Does anything else need to be said? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 08:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that's perfect I think. The Rambling Man 08:53, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I added a sentence making it clear that we don't know if he really was homosexual or bisexual, or if instead it was a function of his paranoia. I still think that this one statement, made under considerable duress, is a pretty flimsy reason to include him in the LGBT category, but I suppose it doesn't hurt. -- The_socialist talk? 21:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The source I added says "There is no evidence to show that Castlereagh had any homosexual inclinations, although he has been credited with them." - [1]. But it doesn't back that up with anything. I'll see if I can find anything more for that. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone have Hyde, H. M. (1959). The Strange Death of Lord Castlereagh. ? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA revisited

Hello folks, sorry it's been a few days but I've been out of the country. I've looked over the changes made and I'm pleased to say that I think it's in a much better state. I've added a Further reading section as the in-line references and the bullet list of texts didn't look great. Anyway, enough of that, I'm promoting the article to GA and congratulate those involved in getting the article there. All the best, The Rambling Man 15:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarded in Ireland...

The article states: "In Ireland he is always regarded, particularly by nationalists, as a traitor." I can find nothing in the given citation [[2]] to support this. Moreover "always... particularly by nationalists" seems unlikely, since what nationalists would regard as treason (against Ireland, presumably) unionists would regard rather as praiseworthy.

I'm removing the line. If someone can find a supporting citation, a statement of the form "Irish nationalists regard[ed] him as..." might be in order. - Paul (talk) 00:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)