Talk:Robert Spencer/Archive 1

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Dec 17, 2005

New York-based Muslims who desecrated the U.S. flag on a street corner (watch video at http://www.intelligencesummit.org/news/GW1.php ) issued a threat against Islam scholar Robert Spencer for publicizing their video of the event along with accusations of ties to foreign jihadists. Look at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44709 Furthermore CAIR is unable to quote Robert Spencer because they know that everything what Robert Spencer says is true. Look at http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20183.

This seems to be a matter of considerable debate, not a fact. Let's stick with the facts and preferably impartial sources - i.e., articles not written by Spencer himself. - 06 Dec 2005

This article could use some criticisms of Spencers work, of which there are many. DigiBullet 03:50, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone find anything about him saying anything about Islam before 9/11? It's like this guy showed up from no where.

Robert Spencer is a self-appointed expert. He got his MA in 1986 but his biographies absurdly list his "scholarship" of Islam as beginning in 1980. His "expert" study of Islam either began his freshman year or else it took him six years to get his MA. He has no publication history that I've ever been able to find between then and when he shows up publishing books after 9/11. He claims to have published "hundreds of articles" but I can't find them unless he is talking about web pages. I can't find any biography that covers what he was doing between 1986 and 2001. He doesn't have a PhD and never had an academic job. The subject of his MA thesis in 1986 was about a scholar of the Church of England who converted to Catholicism in the 1830s. As far as I'm concerned, that shoots any credilibity he had left. So...the truth would would seem to be that Robert Spencer is a fanatical Catholic whose interest in Islam dates directly to the time of the foundation of the Christian-Islamic Forum, a group dedicated to creating interpretations of Islamic Scriptures to aid in converting Muslims to Catholicism.

All of this, however, is irrelevant to whether or not he is right in what he says about Islam. His alleged background and supposed motives don't negate his quotations of the Qur'an, Hadith, Sira, and fiqh. He himself has pointed out that his critics can only lie or carp about his credentials; they haven't found any errors in his work.

Again, this seems to be a matter of considerable debate. Even the pages quoted in the Wikipedia article point out objections to his work including: ignoring schools of thought that contradict his POV, using faulty or inaccurate translations of Arabic texts, poor understanding of the context in which writings were made, highly selective quotations, use of discredited sources. This is from one of the articles quoted. So clearly people think they have found errors in his work. The point of this article is to present a balanced view - there is a section for Spencer's views, and a section for criticisms. Let's stick with the structure that most other pages are using. - 06 Dec 2005

The fact that charges are made doesn't mean they are true. Particularly when no specifics are offered. In fact, Spencer covers all the major schools of Islamic law in his book Onward Muslim Soldiers, which I have read twice. Which school of thought is he ignoring? And he uses only translations made by and for Muslims. Which are faulty? These are common charges of terror apologists, made to discredit people they don't like. --7Dec05

That is for the readers to decide. The entry presents facts and sources. All of the quotes are attributed, and almost every point has a verifiable source, most of them Spencer's own works. People are free to check the sources and decide for themselves. The point is not to promote a version that one side or the other thinks is "true". This entry contains a pretty large section on Spencer's background and thesis, and a reasonably large section on the criticisms of those claims and his organization. That seems pretty balanced. The solution to the concern you have is not to make the criticism section "Criticism and Spencer's rebuttal", but instead to put relevant points of view in the Thesis section.

Also, I think it is disrespectful to call other Wikipedia contributors "terror apologists" because they don't agree with you. Let's try to keep to the standards of Wikipedia [1]. - Yalto, 7 Dec 2006

Are you willfully misunderstanding me? I was referring to hate groups like CAIR and the ADC, not to Wikipedia. It is, anyway, completely UNbalanced to present their charges and not to allow for any rebuttal by him or anyone.

Everyone please remember that we're all trying to get to the same goal of a neutral, informative article about Spencer's work. There is no need for personal attacks or pointed comments. Please refer to the wikipedia etiquette section for more details on what is expected of everyone here. - 07 Dec 2005

Recent change to the page: "widely published in the counter terrorism community", yet none of the media references listed below list any Counter Terrorism specific publications. Can this claim be substantiated and some of the relevant sources added? --Yalto 05:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)