Talk:Robert May, Baron May of Oxford

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Why is this not under Robert May as per Wikipedia convention?

it's a good question, and i think it should be moved there. clarkk 01:12, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

unfortunately there is a redirect at Robert May, which means a sysop needs to delete the redirect before it can be moved back. clarkk 01:23, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have moved it back. --Lexor|Talk 13:42, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Knighthood and Peerage

As his knighthood was "Knight Bachelor", it was not one within the sovereign's personal gift, but one involving the British government. The Australian government ceased recommending Australians for Imperial awards some years prior to 1996, and also announced (not sure exactly when) that Australians would no longer be receiving knighthoods. So I'm wondering:

• did May's knighthood require the approval of the Australian government? If so, why did they go against their announced policy?
• does May hold dual British-Australian citizenship? (that might explain why the Aust govt's permission was irrelevant - if it was)
• how did an Australian citizen get to be appointed to the British House of Lords? How did he get to be eligible? would dual-citizenship be the answer here, too? JackofOz 09:07, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

afaik any commonwealth citizen can be a member of the House of lords or house of commons, and can vote in uk elections.

The House of Lords is at least partly appointed by the UK government. Any Commonwealth citizen can be appointed as long as their own government gives approval. This was the issue that caused Conrad Black to renounce his Canadian citizenship, and take out UK citizenship, in order to become Lord Black of Crossharbour. The Canadian government invoked the Nickle Resolution and refused him permission to accept a British award. The Australian government has had a similar policy for some 15-odd years. How come that policy did not prevent May from receiving a peerage?

I'd be very surprised if a non-British Commonwealth citizen would be eligible to stand for the House of Commons. That used to be the case, but I think the Statute of Westminster put paid to such things decades ago. JackofOz 00:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

What about Bryan Gould? He was born in New Zealand and came to the UK as a Rhodes Scholar. He sat in the House of Commons in the 1980s/90s and then went back to New Zealand to be a university Vice-Chancellor. To the best of my knowledge anyone can be created a peer (what the governments of non-UK citizens think of that is another matter, of course, and in practice I don't suppose a non-Commonwealth citizen would ever be created a peer) but only Commonwealth and Irish citizens can sit in the House of Lords; I think any Commonwealth or Irish citizen can sit in the House of Commons as well (unless disqualified for some other reason of course). I may be wrong. However, I think the case of Bryan Gould suggests that I'm not, unless he became a UK citizen at some point. In short, I don't think you have to be British to sit in the Westminster Parliament. I could be wrong. I'm not an expert.--Oxonian2006 00:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

No argument with your last point. My main interest now is how an Australian citizen (and not, afaik, a dual British citizen) can be given a knighthood by the British government, without, afaik, any consultation with the Australian government. Such appointments that are not in the monarch's personal gift require the recommendation or at least the agreement of the Australian government, but for at least the past 12 years it has been government policy under both Liberal and Labor governments not to permit Australians to receive Imperial honours and awards, including knighthoods. That's why, for example, Australia has instituted its own, separate, Victoria Cross. Maybe the Aust govt of the day was consulted, and agreed, but I assume there must have been some public announcement explaining why an exception was made in May's case. Or maybe that would have raised too many questions. I'm groping in the dark here. JackofOz 00:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

All I can imagine is that he must have UK citizenship as well. Presumably he is still an Australian citizen? - or was one as recently as 1998, when he became a Companion of the Order of Australia. If he is a dual Australian/UK citizen does he still need permission from the Australian Government to receive a UK honour? Perhaps it was an honest mistake, like, for example, the one made with Paul Reeves (former Primate and Governor General of New Zealand). As a clergyman, he should not have received the accolade and hence should not be called "Sir Paul", but the person presiding at the ceremony (the Governor General maybe?) didn't know this and gave him the accolade anyway and it was afterwards thought that it would be too complicated to take away the knighthood and give it to him again (but just giving him the badge or whatever). At least that's the version of the story I was told. Maybe nobody realised that he was Australian, or they did but didn't realise that they shouldn't be giving him a knighthood? Wasn't Elton John was presented to the Queen as "John Elton"? These people are not infallible.--Oxonian2006 11:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at my latest edit to the article. The Oz authorities were certainly involved in his peerage, vetoing his initial choice of title - "Baron May of Woollahra". -- JackofOz 04:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)