Talk:Robert D. Crane

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I am afraid this entire article is suspect as it appears to have been either written by the subject himself aor somebody working with him using sources entirely written by the subject. Some of the claims are fantastic (escaping from a Stalin-era prison camp) and some are entirely self-serving (such as statements about Kissinger). This needs to be entirely re-written with true source material and until then, I am taking it on myself to edit it down. Whatever these case, its far too long for a very minor personage. I found nothing on his early days on either LexisNexis, newspaper archives, or on the Web (other than his own biographies. I did find a 1967 newspaper article identifying a Robert D. Crane at Hudson but further work will have to wait for another day.

Sgmiller 16:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I was accused of "vandalism." However Wikipedia policy states:
"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability
As I pointed out, the only sources used in this article are sources written by the subject himself. I was intending to start over and try to do this article correctly with 3rd party sources which I why I started with a stub and was intending to build it back up if possible. Obviously somebody objects. Ok fine. Then what I am doing is removing the most eggrecious material such as the claim that the subject escaped from a gulag or that he was fired from various positions because of Henry Kissinger. I will be glad to put those back in when there is proper sourcing. More later
Sgmiller 17:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


Sgmiller, I created this page and contributed the original material. I am not Robert D. Crane and neither do I work for him. Please refrain from making baseless statements about this article having been written by the subject or someone connected to him.

With the exception of the article written by the subject "Compassionate Justice", all material has been referenced to 3rd party sources. Even the article "Compassionate Justice", though authored by the subject, is published on a 3rd party website. This article is particularly informative, which is why it is referenced several times. You yourself have chosen to retain some of the information from it.

As for some of the "eggrecious" (egregious?) material, I agree with some of your omissions, but not all. I have removed the following points until there is further reference:

  • That his great grand father was one of the financial founding fathers of Northwestern University
  • That he escaped from the Gulag twice
  • That he was the "principal advisor" of Nixon
  • The specific disagreement with Kissinger that lead to him being fired from the position of Deputy Director (Planning), NSC. Since both of them are still alive, its best not to mention it unless their is further evidence.
  • That Henry Kissinger had him fired from his position as the ambassador to the UAE.

I believe the following points should be retained.

  • His studies at Harvard, his education at Munich University and involvement in the anti-communist underground. In my view this information is useful and non-controversial.
  • His firing from the position of Deputy Director (Planning) of NSC. Kissinger was the Director at the time, and therefore it is fair to mention his name. As mentioned earlier, I have omitted the part about their specific differences.
  • His firing from the position of Ambassador to the UAE. Alexander Haig was the Secretary of State at the time, and Crane's position came under his purview. Therefore it is fair to mention his name. As mentioned earlier, any references to Kissinger have been removed.

Finally, I disagree with your characterization of him as a "minor personage". He has held important positions in the US government. He is the author of several books and articles. He is the founder (or one of the founders) of several organizations. And he is still active as an author and activist. Far more has been written on Wikipedia on far less significant people. A simple google search shows a lot of of his works and activities. Just because it is difficult to find information about his private life or career does not make him insignificant or a "minor personage".

Sage 19:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)