Talk:RMS Queen Elizabeth 2

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[edit] Colour

Gbambino wrote - Service History - never seen anything about negative commentary from pax -. I sailed on the QE2 in 1982/3 and the light grey colour was not popular among the punters, something along the lines of - she looks like every other cruise ship the QE2 is special she should be in the traditional colours.

([[User:|Benno]] 17:13, 30 April 2006 (UTC))

Well, I'm just going by the books I have on ocean liners. None mention dissatisfaction on the part of passengers as a deciding factor for Cunard to change the colour back to the original livery, only increased maintenance due to the light colour always showing rust. --gbambino 20:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I guess it was a combination of the two, but the regular pax were not happy with the lighter colour

--(Benno 12:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Name

Many authorities ser she was named after an earlier war, the RMS Queen Elizabeth, rather than Queen Elizabeth II, who launched the ship in 1969, but some authorities associated with the war say she was, indeed, named after Queen Elizabeth II.

This is just SILLY. It's hardly information that's lost in the Dark Ages, it's less than 40 years ago -- surely we can find this out! Has anyone tried writing to Cunard to ask them? -- Tarquin 23:41 Jan 4, 2003 (UTC)

So, who were these ships named for, Shakespeare's Queen Elizabeth? The present queen, second of that name, was queen when the RMS QE2 was launched, but she was a little princess when the previous RMS QE was launched. Ortolan88

Check out the note here: http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:bRAPwcqoJBoC:www.zeitgaz.com.au/archive/000225/trends.htm+QE2+%22named+for%22+%22queen+elizabeth%22+cunard&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 -- isis 00:12 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)

Interesting - it appears that there is some genuine uncertainty who the ship was named after, as reputable sources disagree with each other.
I'm still pretty much certain that "Queen Elizabeth II", with the roman numeral, is incorrect. I haven't seen any good source that suggests otherwise. Enchanter

Check out all the webpages with it the original way ("II"), and if that's not enough for you, go to the library and look in the paper encyclopedias. My Funk & Wagnalls, ©1972, has only the Roman numeral. (And did you look at the note at the link I put above, that purports to come from the ship's master?) -- isis 00:40 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)

This quote, from the link above, seems so sensible it might even be the case, and should probably be in the article if we could come up with a name, of the ship's master who said it:
"The QE2 is named after Her Majesty and not because she is the second ship of that name. We use the Arabic figure two so that our name is not confused with that of the monarch when it is seen in writing."
Ortolan88
RMS Queen Elizabeth was named for Queen Elizabeth, then the Queen Consort of King George VI, later the Queen Mother. The earlier Queen Mary was named for the Queen Consort of George V, I believe. --rbrwr
The first ship was named for the wife of King George VI, aka Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. The second ship was named after the first ship. It was no doubt considered a bonus that QE II was reigning then, but the QE2 was named after the ship it would replace, in the same way as the Queen Mary II is named after the ship it will replace. (The Queen Mary was named after King George V's wife. A probably spurious story has Cunard asking George for permission to name their new ship "after England's greatest Queen" -- meaning Victoria -- and George answering "My wife would be delighted.") -- Someone else 00:22 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)
Two fish were swimming along in the Atlantic when a great shape passed overhead. "What was that?" said the first fish. "Queen Mary's bottom," said the second. "God save the King then," said the first. Ortolan88

According to Cunard's official website, "The new ship is not named after the Queen but is simply the second ship to bear the name - hence the use of the Arabic 2 in her name, rather than the Roman II used by the Queen." -- Zoe

For some years after the ship was launched, its name was "Queen Elizabeth II"; that's the way we spelled it in term papers, and that's the way it appears in the reference books I have here. My best recollection is that in about the 1980s there was some kind of major overhaul, with a new maiden voyage for the refurbished ship, and that's about when it started being called the "Queen Elizabeth 2." The person I knew who had sailed on it then has retired and moved, so I can't check with him about when it was. Does this match what anyone else remembers? In the years when it was called "QEII," however, most authorities still said it was named for the old ship, not the current queen, but there were always a few reliable ones that said otherwise. BTW, didn't the queen "christen" it, not "launch" it, and didn't her mom christen the one named for her? -- isis 05:16 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)
This page http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=5484113&matches=5&qsort=r says the refit was in the 1990s, so I guess it wasn't as long ago as I thought. I found a picture in my encyclopedia from the early 1970s, and altho it calls it "Queen Elizabeth II" in the text, the side of the ship says "Queen Elizabeth 2." -- isis 06:20 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)
qe2.org.uk says there was a steam-to-diesel conversion in 1986 and a major refit in 1994. Is that where the confusion arises? --rbrwr
It sure is -- thanks for clearing it up for me. I think that 1986 conversion and re-launch was when it generally went from "QEII" to "QE2" in the materials I was reading. So I suggest that as a matter of NPOV, we use both names (maybe noting "II" as old-fashioned and "2" preferred now) and say it's not unanimous but most authorities think the new one was named for the old one, not the queen. -- isis 11:56 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)
We went through all this months ago, on one of the other talk pages, but I was outvoted then. I clearly remembered the ship being launched with the words, "I name this ship Queen Elizabeth THE SECOND". It's a relief to know my memory wasn't playing tricks on me after all. --Deb
I'll just point out that on 15th January 1969 the Royal Mail issued a set of stamps honouring "British Ships", and the 5d value is quite clearly labelled "RMS Queen Elizabeth 2" - I've just dug out my stamp album to check! Arwel 19:13 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, the name on the ship's bow and stern has read "Queen Elizabeth 2" since she left her fitting out berth. As well, Cunard postcards depicting the ship have always read "Queen Elizabeth 2," never "Queen Elizabeth II." --gbambino 22:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] inconsistent?

During her service as the Cunard flagship, the Queen Elizabeth 2 traveled all over the world, and now operates predominantly as a cruise ship sailing out of Southampton, England.

and

While she has been taken off the traditional "transatlantic" route which has been taken over by the QM2

If she travelled all over the world as Cunard flagship, does this mean she also did cruises before, not only transatlantic routes? And what does predominantly mean? What else does she serve than cruising? --212.204.66.66 17:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

She did cruises though-out her career. I'd understand the "predominantly" part (the word meaning "mostly") as referring to Southampton, where she usually - but not always - sails from. -- Kjet 14:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. March to December - round trips from Southampton. December to March - World Cruise. Exceptions to the round trips from Southampton are down to nil since the Mary came on line. 21:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RMS no more

QE2 no longer carries the mail, so is therefore no longer a Royal Mail Ship (RMS), so should be correctly called MV (motor vessel).

I think the ship is still entitled to the RMS prefix, until it is officially revoked, that is, and I personally haven't heard of that happening. --gbambino 15:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
According to Douglas Wards' Complete Guide To Cruising and Cruise Ships, she is not allowed to use the RMS prefix. The precise quote is: "RMS Queen Mary 2 (designated a Royal Mail Ship by the British Post Office - a designation it's smaller sister QE2 does not have)" -- Kjet 14:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Hmm.. given that the statement is technically incorrect in that only the Queen can approve the use of the prefix "Royal," whether for a mail ship or not, I have my doubts about its claim regarding the QE2 as well. Personally, I've never heard of a ship losing permission to use the designation simply because it ceased the trans-Atlantic run, and, further, they've just installed Royal Mail post boxes on board both QM2 and QE2 [1]. Of course, nothing says for sure whether the ship still uses "RMS" or not, so I'll have to see if I can look into it more. --gbambino 15:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The post box on QE2 is not emptiedbybthe royal mail - the keys to it hung behind my desk when I worked in the Pursers Office onboard from 1988-1994. Staff open the box and the post within it is taken to ashore (also by cunard staff) and posted as usual. The official documents refer to the vessel as TSMV - meaning "twin screw motor vessel". HM The Queen has nothing to do with it - it whether the ship carries the Royal Mails or not - and QE2 no longer carries the Royal Mail in transit.

The QE2's Purser used to be authorised to cancel mail posted aboard ship with British stamps - if he/she still has that ability, then the ship still carries Royal Mail. However, what really matters is whether or not the ship continues to be contracted to carry Royal Mail, even if she doesn't literally carry it. I still can't find any info that verifies or denies this. --G2bambino 21:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I spoke to the First and Third Officers about this whilst on the Bridge last year. Neither was able to tell me. However I did note that there was a recent message to Elizabeth R which was signed by the Master (David Perkins if I recall correctly) displayed on the quarter deck portside near the model of RMS Mauretania which clearly was signed "Master XXX, RMS Queen ELizabeth 2"Kindlychap 21:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Cunard list the ships as "RMS Queen Mary 2" and just plain "Queen Elizabeth 2" in their official fleet lists.[2] During the launch of the QM2 they also noted that the RMS designation was due to being contracted for a mail route (namely Southampton to New York), which was transferring to the new ship.
Technically, it appears that today the QE2 isn't 'RMS'. However, it seems to be practice to refer to former designations in articles, e.g. RMS Carpathia or the original QM and QE. Mauls 12:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] power

Power: 10,625 kW at 400 rpm Propulsion: 9 MAN 9-cylinder medium speed turbo-charged diesel engines turning two five-bladed propellers Speed: 32.5 knots (61 km/h), 20 knots (37 km/h) in reverse

My English is not that good. Should I read that each engine has 10,625 kW, shouldn't I?

[edit] Titanic reference

Why the bizarre little reference that she was "larger than the RMS Titanic"? So where dozens upon dozens of liners by the time that QE2 entered service. Titanic was the largest liner in service at the time of her tragic maiden voyage, but she was launched in the mids of an "arms race" amongst trans-atlantic operators, and there were larger vessels already on the blocks when the Titanic sailed.

I agree that it's useful to point out that QE2 was smaller than her immediate Cunard predecessors, but pointing out that she was larger than Titanic seems utterly pointless.

I have to agree. I'll suppose this comparison stems from the media's constant use of the Titanic as a base-line, even for ships like the QM2 and Freedom of the Seas!! I think it's ridiculous there, so I'll have to say I think it should be taken out of this article as well; though mention should be made of her diminished size compared to her predecessor. --gbambino 12:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Retirement

Lawsonrob, the removal of info from the Retirement section is not simply about npov on the Queen Victoria. My motives are as follows:

  • 1) ...there was inevitable speculation...: "inevitable" is pov.
  • 2) ...the Queen Victoria is not designed as an ocean liner.: Not pov, but irrelevant to this article. The design of the QV is covered at MS Queen Victoria.
  • 3) ...which could not be justified given the age of the vessel.: the "justification" is pov; at least, the referenced source makes no mention of Cunard's position on the justification of making upgrades to QE2.

If I'm incorrect with any of this, please let me know how. --G2bambino 15:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grim Wheels

Does the QE2 still have Grim Wheels fitted to the propellers? "QE2 was the first passenger ship to use Grim Wheels (so called because they were invented by Dr Ing Otto Grim) in an attempt to make the new QE2 even more efficient. These wheels spin freely in the wake of the main propellers. The innermost parts of each of the 7 blades pick up speed from the propeller, while the outermost parts act as propellers themselves, adding some forward motion to the ship for "free", capturing energy which would otherwise be wasted. The Grim Wheels are 6.7 meters in diameter" --Palmiped 08:34, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Nope - they came off during sea trials after the refit in 1987.--Ssdurn 06:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use of "she" in the article

An anon changed "she" to "it" on a couple ship articles (RMS Antonia‎ and RMS Queen Elizabeth 2‎). In the Antonia edits, the anon referenced the removal of "sexist language". I am unsure how this is viewed as sexist, So I'm reverting it now. My understanding was that all ships are commonly referred to as she in english speaking cultures, and being the english wiki, it seems appropriate to do so here. For justification, I'm using the wiki article she which states "She is also used instead of it for things to which feminine gender is conventionally attributed: a ship or boat (especially in colloquial and dialect use) ..." --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:20, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Preceeding Queens

I'm going to transfer this from my talk page to here: --G2

Before you add your comments back about the "Dated" designs of the original Cunard Queens, can you prove what you are saying is correct and what does it have to do with the original RMS Queen Elizabeth?
The Queen Elizabeth was launched in the 1930s and the QE2 was at the end of the sixties so there over thirty years of change and what you added to the article has nothing to do with the latter ship.
Cunard designed the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth to be nothing more than the smallest and slowest ship to carry out the task as an Atlantic ferry and nothing else - which was Sir Percy Bates' own discription of the two ships and he knew what the traveller wanted was not something light years away like the Normandie and more homely like the Queens.
Cunard tried to send the Queens cruising and they both failed and lost money - they were deep draft ocean liners with fuel and water and other supplies for no more than five days service at 28.5 knots service speed and their design did not allow for cruising.
The QE2 needed to be more of a cruise ship than a ocean liner for the majority of the time in service - so not only had time passed so had the role of the liner. Harking back to the design of the first Queen Elizabeth has nothing to do with the artice.
This can be proved if you read the books written about the Queens by leading ocean liner officiados' and authors like William H Miller and John Maxton-Graham.
Regards msa1701 (talk) 07:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I've already addressed earlier at my talk page, but I will reiterate: The paragraph in question isn't meant to have anything to do with the purposes of the ships, but the appearances of the ships; QE was already outmoded in style before she took to full time passenger service at the end of the '40s. She, and the QM, carried her art deco look right through to the year before the first sailing of the QE2, excluding a couple of cosmetic attempts to update the decor. It was that stodgy, wood panneled lounges, riveted hull look that Cunard wanted to get away from with their new ship. I'm sure I can find where this was said before, but as I mentioned yesterday, I'll have to do a bit of re-research. --G2bambino (talk) 13:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)