Talk:Ritual washing in Judaism

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Contents 1 Tevilah 2 Article title 3 Mikveh question 4 Proposed merger with Negelvasser 5 Totally disputed tag

[edit] Tevilah

Should tevilah (immersion) of new vessels for eating be included here? --jnothman 13:07, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Good question. I'm not sure. :-) Jayjg ^(talk) 17:47, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Hi, my suggestion in this case is: Create a seperate article and then cross-reference and link the two. Thus, the name Immersion of vessels in Judaism would solve your problem and avoid confusion with the the other "ablutions" of/by humans and/or their body parts. IZAK 07:38, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The dictionary seems to suggest that only washing body parts is included in "ablution". I find the whole term foreign to Judaism. The proper name is netilath yadayim, and I'm hotly in favour of a move. JFW | T@lk 19:28, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

• JFW: The article deals with more than "washing of hands" if you will care to read it. "Ablution" is fine for those who speak and understand good English. If you like though, and you really want to create a fairly LENGTHY new article devoted to a special section of it, then I think that Ritual washing of hands in Judaism would be perfectly fine instead of the Hebrew name you suggest in this case for the subject of Netilat Yadayim; you could then also create a "REDIRECT" from Netilat Yadayim to "Ritual washing of hands in Judaism" to cover all bases. IZAK 07:38, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• I'm for a name change too. Ablution isn't just the anglicied version of nitilas yodiayim, it has other connotations of purification that we only attribute to a full immersion in a mikveh. Ritual washing of hands in Judaism sounds fine to me.

—  <TALKJNDRLINETALK>    

[edit] Mikveh question

• I have two questions:

1- Do Jews have to do Mikvah after a sexual intercourse or secretion of semen? 2- Do Jews have to wash their behinds with water after defication?

If the answer is yes to any of the questions please mention it in the article.

Thank you very much.

1- no except nocturnal emissions and this is not widely practiced 2- no

• This is not in the scope of the article. Please see Mikveh.

Note on question -- some Hassidic groups, including Chabad-Lubavitch, practice immersion in a mikvah every day. This essentially covers the base of immersion following intercourse/seminal emissions without having to address such a delicate topic directly. Best, --Shirahadasha 20:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger with Negelvasser

I don't object strongly to a merger. It seems to me that there could legitimately be an article on the cup separately from the article on washing with it, just as the article on Mikvah is separate from how to use it. I do believe, however, that material on how to wash shouldn't be scattered between the two articles, and if it should be concentrated in one article it should go in this article. I suggest a similar approach to the relationship between this article and mikvah, letting the mikvah article focus on what a mikvah is and what makes it kosher, and refer to this article for material on when and how to do tevilah. --Shirahadasha 20:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

They are seperate things that should not be mixed. There is handwashing and the mikvah (and the 9 Kav for someone who has had an emission). I say de-merge. JFW | T@lk 02:09, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Totally disputed tag

The re-write contains a substantial amount of useful contenr, but it erased content on the practice within Judaism -- the article's subject -- and substituted material from sources that are not necesssarily reliable sources on Judaism. I'll need to clean this up to re-add the halakha on ritual washing and to clarify which views stated represent beliefs of various denominations of Judaism, and which represent commentary about or criticism of Judaism. Best, --Shirahadasha 21:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. This is an article about "ritual washing" (in itself a somewhat misleading term, but I can't think of a better one at the moment) in Judaism, not about Christian interpretation of biblical texts related to ritual washing. (Having recently seen some Christian textbooks about Judaism, it's pretty clear to me that Christian interpretation of Jewish practices that persist to this day are often at odds with contemporary Jewish practice.) Important details are omitted, some fairly speculative facts are included, and the article is misleading to anyone who wants to learn about washing as a ritual act within Judaism. I'm not sure a bias is intended, though. --Leifern 13:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. I added back some material about actual modern practice, but it's clear the article was written with little knowledge of actual ritual washing. Jayjg ^(talk) 04:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I've attempted to reorganize. I'm afraid I've barely started on the Tevilah section (the section involving full immersion in a body of "living water") and have run out of time. Will have to stop in the middle -- half done one way, half the other -- and get back to this. --Shirahadasha 01:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

One difficulty is that the article attempts to connect contemporary practices with Temple practices such as the the Red Heifer ceremony, but it gives an "outsider's" rather than an "insider's" view of the connections involved. Expanding the article to include discussion of Temple ritual purification from a religious perspective is a much broader topic than focusing on the article's subject, one I'm not competent to do real justice to, so I may need to move some of this material to a separate section and leave a disputed tag on it. Will attempt to resolve in a couple of days. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

References to Holiness and Deuteronomic codes are distatateful to traditional Jews (and Christians). I shall attempt to change.Wolf2191 01:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

My addition of Kaplan's theory assumes a basic familiarity with Genesis. I chose not to elaborate because one can easily follow the link to the Genesis article.Wolf2191 03:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)