User talk:Richerman
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[edit] Re: Richard Towneley
Thanks for your input, I do not want to enter an edit war "Some of this came from the burnley.gov.uk website which is the sort of site that would be considered reasonably reliable." I wrote that stuff, so thanks. I think my main complaint about your input is that it relies mainly on websites which do not themselves give any references, http://www.kabrna.com/cpgs/cliviger/sheddon/welcome.htm is a particular example and I have already explained on the discussion page why the claim about the rainfall measurements being in support of lime hushing has no foundation.
Apart from that I am happy with the current state of the first para and the early life section. The later life and achievements section certainly needs editing as it is all over the place in terms of a time line. I do not have time to make any further changes tonight but one thing I will remove is the claim that the books from his library were donated to Corpus Christi College, Cambridge. I have a copy of his will and nothing left Towneley until 1814 when some of the books were sold and so odd ones ended up in Cambridge. I see that you have no reference for this.
I hope to find time to rewrite the rainfall measurement part later this week in a way that you will be happy with JoshuaRaw (talk) 22:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
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- Hmm, I can't remember where that bit about the books came from now - but if it's not referenced it should go. As I said, you obviously know a lot more about the subject than I do so I'm glad you're taking an interest. I certainly wouldn't want to be putting out anything that isn't true and I don't claim to be any kind of historian. I just find out what I can and put it in while trying not to copy it word for word. Of course, it's easy to misinterpret something when you're doing that. I only recently found out about the part those northern scientists played and thought it was a shame that they had fallen into obscurity and was trying to redress the balance a little by starting an article on RT. However, I'm quite happy for someone who knows more about him to take up the challenge. There's nothing like a bit of wrong information to get people fired up is there? Happy editing - I'll be interested to read your contributions. Oh, and sorry if I seemed to be damning your other work with faint praise. It was some time since i last read it and when I looked again it's got more references than you can shake a stick at!Richerman (talk) 22:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] WPGM New Monthly Newsletter
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[edit] Duplicate images uploaded
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[edit] Kersal Moor
Hello there Richerman, and thank you ever so much for the contact.
The Kersal Moor article was brought to my attention via your decision to join us at the Greater Manchester WikiProject. I had never heard of the place before reading through, and enjoyed broadening my knowledge of the area.
It seems in my efforts to standardise some of the content, and add a few of the more fancy features (such as the categories and infobox), I made a silly change with regards to SSSI and SBI and confused the two with each other.... thus I fully apologise! Hope you can forgive me?? If you can, feel free to contact me anytime should you want to. Crompton Moor is a small article I wrote some time ago which may interest you also. Thanks again for the contact, Jza84 01:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi jza. Well I suppose I can forgive you just this once you naughty boy! Thanks for the work you did on my article with the infobox etc. I really seem to have got the wikibug now and have contributed an article on Drinkwater Park and a bit about Prestwich Forest park which points to it on the Prestwich page. I've also started obsessively correcting other articles, putting in internal links where they were missing and added citations. Is there a cure for this malady? Perhaps it starts with "My names Nick and I'm a wikipedian". A month ago I didn't know about any of this stuff!
- I saw an article on Agecroft Hall recently that is under the Category "Buildings in Virgina". As it was moved there from Agecroft in Salford would it be reasonable to put it under a Salford category too? If so which one? Thanks for the kind words, I enjoyed the Crompton Moor page. Richerman 11:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
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- Yes Wikipedia is incredibly addictive and the scope for contribution is truely huge. I beleive however it is the very greatest webspace avaliable to world at this time! With regards to the Agecroft Hall article, I would be tempted to add it to the History of Salford caregory given its circumstances.
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- I hope you enjoy Wikipedia and decide to stay. If you take an interest in local geography and adding citation - WP:UKCITIES are useful guidelines on writing about settled areas, Template:Infobox UK place is an excellent tool for presenting infomation about places, and WP:CITET is a helpful page on properly stucturing source material. I have around two years editting experience so if you're struggling with anything, again, do feel free to give me a shout. Jza84 14:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I think I'm hooked now so you won't get rid of me that easily! I've just done some editing and adding information on the Heaton Park page but feel it needs some more work. After a walk round the Park with the dog today I've decided to restructure the article and add a lot more information and photo's. I just hope I don't upset the original author too much.Richerman 01:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- It's OK - Be Bold!! We're all encouraged to make big steps in moving articles forwards. If we weren't, nothing much would get completed! Furthermore there is no original author or owner of articles, they're open to everyone. Sometimes you'll make a change that another doesn't like or vice-versa, but that's what the talk pages are there for to work it out.
- Don't feel restricted to editting your own user page before rolling out changes either. You could use a notepad page (yours is here), or go straight to the main article space. WP:GA are guidelines on obtaining awards for articles, whilst WP:MOS is the style-guide, or "do's and don'ts" for other details and formatting. Jza84 12:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for that, I've taken your advice and gone for the bold approach - how does it look? I've found the help files really difficult to use on wikipedia. For instance, when I've uploaded a file without remembering to put the licence tag on it I really can't work out how to add it later. Reading all the bits I can on it just seems to take me round in a circle about licensing without actually saying how you apply the tag. Also, is there a way to search just the help pages with the WP prefix, as the help contents is very limited? Richerman 12:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Heaton Hall.JPG
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[edit] Duplicate images uploaded
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[edit] As you rightfully requested!
Hello, Richerman, and welcome to Wikiproject Greater Manchester! Thank you for your generous offer to help contribute. I'm sure your input will be much appreciated. I hope you enjoy contributing here and being a Greater Manchester Project Wikipedian!
As a project we aim to have all our articles compliant with the various editing policies and guidelines. If you are contributing an article, it is good practice to ensure that it’s properly referenced with reliable sources, otherwise any contentious content may be removed by another editor. A good starting point for articles about settlements in Greater Manchester is the WP:UKCITIES guideline. If you have any questions, feel free to discuss anything on the project talk page, or to leave a message on my own talk page. Please remember to sign all your comments, and be bold with your ideas. Again, welcome, and happy editing! |
I know you're already a member, but thanks to your suggestion we developed the above welcoming template for all our future new-members of the Greater Manchester WikiProject. Hope this is what you had in mind???? Looks like you're getting into the swing of things now, and finding out just how much work there is to be done! -- Jza84 · (talk) 23:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes that's exactly the sort of thing, although I'd prefer a bit more text. Maybe I should work on a longer welcome message myself. If you're going to complain you have to be prepared to do the work to put things right. The logo's really good. I hope you've caught up on your sleep now. Richerman 14:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Glad you like it! If you do think of some other ideas to put in, please feel free to raise them at the Project talk page so a wider user audience can discuss the changes.
- On the topic of policies, they are quite hard to find - though there are literally thousands of policies and guidelines; you'll never get through them all. WP:MOS is quite a helpful place to start. Is there a specific policy your after? I might be able to help, -- Jza84 · (talk) 22:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Of course, I would submit any suggestions for a consensus view. I'm not looking for any policies at the moment, I usually come across them by accident and just wondered if I was missing an easy way of searching. It seems a bit strange that there isn't a way of doing a simple search for say "Image Placement" (just as an example - I know where that one is now). This is why I thought a few pointers on the welcome message would be useful, or maybe it could point to a "cheat sheet" for things like image placement, "citation needed" templates and stuff like that. Richerman 23:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh ok, so it was there all the time - Doh!!! I had seen it but not checked it out properly. Perhaps if it could get a mention in the welcome message even numpties like me would read it. I'll go and fall on my sword now............ Richerman 12:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
- No it's OK! Don't worry about it! I really admire your ethusiasm, and it is great you're seeking the policies at such an early stage. If you want to put something together for the welcome template which incorporates some of these, I'd certainly support this! Any other questions, please feel free to ask. -- Jza84 · (talk) 12:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
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- I will leave you in peace soon I promise! Just thought I ought to mention that WP:UKCITIES is one of the best guidelines (as opposed to policies) for helping obtain world-class standard articles about British settlements. It's got some great tips on layout, content, and style guides, and has been applied to Manchester, Stretford and Shaw and Crompton to help them along.
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- Hi! Thanks for the message! I loved the proposed text for the welcome template! It made alot of sense to make these changes. I was just about to write my repsonse about this! Do you want me to upload this to the welcome template??
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- On the matter of distance, there's no convention as such; as you're probably aware WP:UKCITIES asks for distances to county towns and principal settlements within districts in the lead section (which is of course difficult for Greater Manchester so the city centre is used, and then typically, Oldham, Bolton, Wigan or the main borough settlement). Probably the most comprehensive (and free!) source for distance calculation is GENUK&I's distance gazetteer, which also gives you the direction!
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- I've always understood that distances to specific landmarks, particularly a church, could have cultural bias; i.e. does one use an Anglican or Catholic church? Is the cathedral or town hall the main landmark? If we use a war memorial or statue, which memorial/statue is more important? Do all readers know where these landmarks are? It was always the approach (even way before I joined Wikipedia) that a neutral "town/city centre" term was used for settlements, as is used by the very best of articles to which we aspire towards. Does that help at all? -- Jza84 · (talk) 11:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
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Well, yes and no! The Genuki gazeteer sounds very useful but I'm still not sure where the centre of Manchester or Salford are. Is it Piccadilly for Manchester? and Salford doesn't seem to have one at all - where did you take them from - or did you just use genuki? And yes, please put the text on if you're happy with it. Richerman 11:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
- I just noticed your question on User:Jza84's talk page and though I would let you know that Manchester Cathedral is the official centre of Manchester on maps, at least that is how I have always understood it. └and-rew┘┌talk┐ 02:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] WPGM Newsletter - November 2007
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Rudget Contributions 17:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sunny Lowry
Hi, I've reverted your good faith edit to this article because you jumped to a wrong conclusion based on the Dover Museum article. Wolffe did indeed choose 3 women to train to attempt the crossing but Lowry was the only one of the three who managed it. She was the 3rd woman to cross the channel, the previous 2 were American, she was the first British woman to do it. I specifically worded it this way to make it clear. Thanks for trying to improve the article though. ---- WebHamster 15:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- LOL, not following you heheheh, just bored checking my watchlist before I go for lunch :) ---- WebHamster 16:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I just added her to the Longsight page, give me two mins and I'll put that one right before you get there Richerman 16:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- Nah, lunch and a long nap first :). I was going to have a go at the Longsight article once I'd finished the Levenshulme and Belle Vue Zoo rewrites, but so much history and so little time. I've had the return the books I was using for research of Belle Vue and I've purchased from Amazon some replacements which I'm waiting to arrive. Longsight train station had quite an impact early on in Belle Vue's history due to its proximity to the Redgate Lane entrance to the Gardens so I may be able to add a bit to that section. ---- WebHamster 20:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Kersal edits
Not quite the entire history section, but most of it.
He does have a point if some of his content's still being used, since he doesn't show up in the article's history and Kersal flats was deleted. A quick glance through the deleted article doesn't show much resemblence, and while I vaguely recall an edit summary on Kersal mentioning a merge somewhere along the line, I didn't pay much attention to it. You'd be in more of a position to know, having written most of the article; I've only had it on my watchlist to stamp out reincarnations of Kersal Massive back when that article was still protected from re-creation. —Cryptic 03:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
- What happened was he wrote the Kersal Flats article, I put a merge tag on it and he contacted me to say he wanted to keep it seperate and would develop it so I removed the tag to give him chance to sort it out. He did nothing with it for a month or so and then someone else put a merge tag on it. In the meantime someone copied over a chunk of text (not me) and part referenced it. I then objected to the merge as there were no references in the Kersal Flats article and so a delete tag was was put on by someone else and it was deleted with his agreement very quickly. He does have a point I suppose as the proper process wasn't followed but a lot of the stuff he deleted in the Kersal article was added by me anyway and some of his text was copied from other websites. I see he's had another go at it so I've removed a bit more unreferenced stuff and left a message for him on the talk page. What I can't work out is why when he does an large edit the text changes don't show up in the history? And as for that Kersal Massive stuff, what an embarrassment - talk about 15 minutes of fame! Richerman (talk) 18:21, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Image tagging for Image:Gascoigne's micrometer as drawn by Robert Hooke .jpg
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[edit] December Newsletter, Issue III
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[edit] Kersal Moor
Hello again!
I've just revisted Kersal Moor (the article!) and found it in a very good shape. I think if we got some of those citations cleaned up with a citation template or two, we could take that article for a Peer Review and probably secure Good article status for it! What do you reckon? -- Jza84 · (talk) 00:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
- Wow! That's a big jump from the start class-rating it has now although I did think that was a bit mean - although it's not really for me to comment as I'm somewhat biased. Looks like I'll have to do some homework on the citation template - although I think I would do them differently now anyway. Richerman (talk) 00:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
- 1990 Strangeways Prison riot passed WP:GAC 26 May 2008
- Murrays' Mills passed WP:GAC 15 May 2008
- City of Salford nominated at WP:GAC 04 May 2008
- Milnrow nominated at WP:GAC 03 May 2008
- Old Trafford passed WP:GAC 02 May 2008
- Hulme Arch Bridge passed WP:GAC 16 April 2008
- Peterloo Massacre passed WP:FAC 12 April 2008
- Upper Brook Street Chapel, Manchester passed WP:GAC 7 April 2008
- Castles in Greater Manchester passed WP:FLC 1 April 2008
- Manchester City F.C. seasons passed WP:FLC 22 March 2008
[edit] Chough
Please note that it is an agreed wikipedia convention that bird species' names are fully capitalised Jimfbleak (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I'll go through and check, thanks for helping anyway. I understand the lion point, and chough wouldn't normally be capped in an non-biology article. Jimfbleak (talk) 17:50, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Public Art Heaton Park.jpg
Thank you for uploading Image:Public Art Heaton Park.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] January Newsletter, Issue IV
The Greater Manchester WikiProject Newsletter | |||||
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[edit] Belle Vue Question
Thanks hjuk (talk) 23:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Working Class Movement Library photo
Thanks for adding it. It's a great pic of the building. I work there. MichaelW (talk) 20:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
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- You're welcome, I recently started work at Salford University so it was no trouble to nip out at lunchtime and take the photo, other than dodging the traffic on the A6 to get a good shot - how we suffer for our art! I took one of the Salford Museum and Art Gallery while I was there too. One day I might get to take one when it's not got a load of cars parked outside. Richerman (talk) 09:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Pendlebury, St John
Hello there Richerman! This was added to geograph.org.uk yesterday, (along with a few others), and remembered this was your neck of the woods (as they say) and thought you might want to include it on a few pages??? Hope it helps! -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
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- Hello again,
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- I've continued hunting for photographs and found this photograph of the Irwell. It's certainly taken from Salford, but I was hoping to clarify with you which part. Do you think this is from Lower Broughton looking towards Manchester? If so, it might be a good addition to the Broughton article. -- Jza84 · (talk) 11:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
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- I'm not quite sure if it's Lower Broughton or further downstream. I was just looking at it on the River Irwell page and trying to place it. I'll have to have a wander around at lunchtime to see if I can get a better idea of the location as I'm working nearby at Salford University now. Lovely colours in the sky though. BTW I got hold of a copy of The Dark River: The Irwell by Cyril Bracegirdle so I'll be adding to the River Irwell article when I get some time. One thing it says in there is that the Irwell was the first river in the world to be polluted by industrial effluent, which is an interesting point to note. Richerman (talk) 12:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
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- Well spotted! Actually I'm a post-grad from Salford so I shouldn've known that myself! There's loads of free shots of the University at Flickr with a proper licence. Some of Maxwell building and others. I think that one should go anyway, copyright or no copyright!
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- Come to think of it, I think the location of that photograph might just be Wallness near the University. Looks about right to me. I agree it's a lovely shot. I'm hoping to work on a few more articles soon, particularly Rochdale, Middleton and Salford. I know that though images aren't considered as a tier for featured article status, most people find them incredibly helpful. I think good photographs always help an article along. -- Jza84 · (talk) 13:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] Gallery on River Irwell
I've undone your last revision that removed the gallery.
The code in the gallery section was wrong, but is now right :-)
Mayalld (talk) 15:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Salford
Just a note that I've greatly expanded the Salford article in the last week or so and thought you might want to take a look when you get a moment to point me in the right direction. I've also started an interesting and related project at User:Jza84/Sandbox2!
Nice work on the River Irwell by the way! A possible joint GAC with Kersal Moor sometime soon??? -- Jza84 · (talk) 02:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hello, and thanks for the contact.
- The changes I've made are broadly shown by this diff. Some of the stuff is admitted unsourced (but lifted from amature websites with the intention of checking it against some books). I also added the racecourse stuff, but this was lifted directly from the Greater Manchester article; I presumed it would be fairly accurate, but you seem to be aware of other information.
- I would like to add more about Kersal Moor in the geography section, and possibly a little more on the River Irwell. The industrial revolution section is still thin (though better than before) simply because I only have one book to hand; it is in this book that states it was "likely" that Salford didn't endure as a mill town because Bolton and Oldham were so dominant at the time.
- I also need much more on the Salford Docks. I suppose now, at this stage, I need to obtain a book or two about Salford (print is always a better source than the net, I believe!). I was wondering, do you know of, or can you recommend any in particular that are particularly comprehensive? -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
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- They look great!... My books on Salford didn't arrive today, although I did get my hands on something about Greater Manchester's rail network and a book about Victorian Rochdale. Thanks again for the images! I'm hoping to give Salford a major push as soon as the books arrive. It would be great to get it to GA. -- Jza84 · (talk) 14:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Geograph images
Good job uploading the geograph images! Take a look at Image:Market Square Wigan.jpg and see what I did - using the geograph template with the image number and author as parameters: {{geograph|42972|Stephen McKay}}. This is so very easy to do, makes the job much easier for you uploading images, ensures proper linkage with the original image on geograph, and chooses the correct licence - cc-by-sa-2.0
b.t.w. You might be better off loading these images directly onto http://commons.wikimedia.org as that's where most people load the geograph images. That way they can be references by any wikimedia project, not just the English Wikipedia.
Any questions, just ask. --TimTay (talk) 14:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Greater Manchester
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar | ||
This barnstar is awarded for your efforts in helping Greater Manchester to achieve good article status. A great collaborative effort from some of the members of the Greater Manchester WikiProject. ┌Joshii┐└chat┘ 15:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC) |
[edit] March Newsletter, Issue V
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[edit] DYK
Great to see Manchester hitting the mainpage! --Espresso Addict (talk) 03:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] DYK
Maxim(talk) 12:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Easter
The text below was posted on my page. IMO it belongs here instead: you were the trigger. `'Míkka>t 17:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Happy Easter my friend. Thanks for the nice thought of adding these festive articles! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 16:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Re: Tandle Hill
Hi Richerman! Thanks for the contact.
I rarely edit that particular article, but have meant to do for a while (as well as improve Chadderton, Royton and other parts of Oldham borough). I'll have a look again in the book I have to see what else I can find and add it to that page. I didn't see anything about Beech trees from memory though. --Jza84 | Talk 22:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Bloody hell! Looks like they've updated that site since I last visited! Looks quite good. It's a local authority sponsored site (or was), so it's not too bad. I'll double check the book(s) I have. I don't have anything Royton-specific to hand though. --Jza84 | Talk 23:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Peterloo Massacre
Do you think the "Witness account" section is appropriate? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 23:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hmmm, if there was consensus, I did not notice it. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 23:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Generally eye witness accounts should be avoided since it looks like reportage. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 23:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Salford contingent
A quick question. Does your book by Frow say how large the Salford contingent was for Peterloo? It would be great if we could add it in the new table. :) --Jza84 | Talk 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] WP:GM Newsletter
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[edit] DYK
--Bobet 16:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] 4/22 DYK
--Bedford 02:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Reunion
Yes I done that myself. I recorded the programme using Audacity (available from download.com) while listening the BBC Listen Again feature. Audacity can save it as an mp3, which I was then able to upload to mediafire. I got these instructions from a friend so not my own creation :) Hope that helps! SeveroTC 15:29, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] River Irwell
I think the pictures in the Gallery look great, but galleries do tend to come in for some stick come review time.[1]. Have you considered linking to the images to Wikimedia Commons with the {{Commons}} tag instead? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- I've copied 4 of the 5 images in the Gallery to WikiCommons, and added the {{Commons}} tag to the article, but the last picture - confluence of the Mersey and Irwell - has no copyright statement, so it would get removed for lack of one. Did it come from geograph.co.uk? Not having access to the all-powerful delete button I can't delete the copies on wikipedia, but all you have to do is tag them for deletion and an administrator will come along and do it. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
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- I'll try and sort something out for the article...... have to dig out my books as the valley has quite a complex geology along it's length. As for the Manchester Marls, they constantly cause debate amongst local geologists so can understand your pains ! Phil aka Geotek (talk) 20:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Warning removal
For your information, 86.1.137.54 (talk) has blanked his/her talk page, removing your vandalism warning.--Ainlina (talk) 15:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Pendle witch trials
Thanks for taking an interest in the Pendle witch trials. It's an article I came across by chance, and like many others it seemed neglected and unloved, so I decided to see what I could do to improve it. Two heads are always going to be better than one though, so whatever improvements you can make, feel free. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- Ah, I thought it was one you'd written, I thought it didn't look much like your writing style. In that case I'll be more ruthless with it tomorrow if I get time. Richerman (talk) 00:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hey, not too ruthless, I hope. ;-) Most of what it looks like today I probably did write. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 01:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Peer review
Glad you found my peer review of Kersal Moor and hope it is helpful. I archived it as it had had no replies in two weeks. If you find the peer review helpful, please consider reviewing an article at WP:PR, particularly one with no responses yet at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 13:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Greater Manchester WikiProject Newsletter
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