Talk:Rick Berman

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Considering the number of alleged Star Trek experts on this site, who seem to delight in entering the details of every variant of cardboard alien, I can't believe that someone who ranks in the top two or three influential people of the Star Trek franchise has such a terrible stubby entry, in which the only meaningful info is pretty much wrong!

Berman is better known as a producer than a writer, being executive producer for most of the series since TNG, and for most of the TNG movies.

I would modify this, but I have taken a Wikivow never to add anything to do with Star Trek on Wikipedia. A two-minute visit to Google will turn up lots of information on him. DJ Clayworth 15:58, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Berman

I thought the Trek fans hated Berman and Braga because of Voyage and Enterprise not because of DS9, which Berman had almost no influence in.

I felt this article skirted the edges of NPOV, and narrowly fell on the side of "Berman-bashing" which I don't think has a place in Wikipedia. I've gone through and made a few minor changes, adding some positive statements to try and balance things a bit more. I also removed references to "sexual explicitness" regarding Seven of Nine and T'Pol, which is clearly inaccurate. Compared to other shows on the air today, and compared to TOS for that matter the "sexual explicitness" of the current Star Trek shows is virtually nonexistent. 23skidoo 17:26, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Indeed. Berman had little to do with DS9. Infact, he told Ira Behr (The head honcho for DS9) that he wanted the Dominion War to last only four episodes, instead of the several years it did last.--Kross 06:20, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)


He hated DS9. He argued several times with Ira about what to do in specific episodes. Like Nog losing his legs or how Jadzia died. He then took the idea of The Dominion war and turned it into the Xindi arc. Hypocrite. --Furious Stormrage

While I'm a staunch Star Trek fan who disapproves of many of Berman's decisions regarding the franchise, the last three paragraphs of the article were _definately_ NPOV. I toned them down to reasonable for Wikipedia without any sources, but industry quotes from prominent sci fi publications would be nice. I would the entire criticisms section be removed due to lack of reputable citations, but there are enough fan citations that it is (in my mind) worthwhile to keep it in. (Oh, yeah, I also seperated it into a full "criticisms" subsection) -- David Souther (talk) 03:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

It looks like the entire criticisms section was added 5 hours before my edit. I still think there are enough forum sites that back up the criticisms section, but to be as NPOV as the original edit needs industry references. David Souther (talk) 03:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming of aritcle

According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), the title of an article should "Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". Since Berman is known almost exclusively as "Rick Berman", I believe that the article should revert to this title.

Acegikmo1 00:12, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I'll put it on Wikipedia:Requested moves. -Branddobbe 22:44, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
Well, there is already a dab page for Rick Berman, which is why it currently has the full title. So, I think the person who named the article was trying to avoid the "conflict with other people", in this case, a Washington lobbyist. --Viriditas | Talk 01:07, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Richard Keith Berman → Rick Berman

Though I haven't conducted any studies, I would imagine that Rick Berman of Star Trek fame is far more well known than Rick B. Berman, Washington lobbyist (who doesn't even have an article). I'd like to move Richard Keith Berman to Rick Berman, with a note at the top saying If you are looking for the Washington lobbyist, see Rick B. Berman. No one knows Rick Berman as "Richard Keith Berman" either. -Branddobbe 22:49, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

  • Support. Jonathunder 01:03, 2005 Feb 28 (UTC)
  • Support. I'm the one who moved Rick Berman to Richard Keith Berman and I wish I'd just done what Branddobbe suggests here. AlistairMcMillan 02:22, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. FWIW, I've changed Rick B. Berman to Richard B. Berman as that name gets more hits in relation to the Center for Consumer Freedom, and that name should be added to the proposed dab header instead. --Viriditas | Talk 02:36, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Now that makes sense. I always find it strange to see a contracted first same with a middle initial -- and wince if anyone does it to my name. Alai 03:42, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. —wwoods 03:36, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Thank you Branddobbe. Acegikmo1 07:47, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Phoenix7718 10:04, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support, slam dunk move for any trekkie. Cburnett 07:23, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Moved - violet/riga (t) 20:47, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Documenting controversy

The Controversy section is rather vague. Statements like "The quality of Voyager declined sharply…" and "Enterprise was considered to be a disaster…" need sources. Something like "many/most fans believed…" is not entirely adequate, either. There should be some kind of cited source referenced. - User:rasd

[edit] User:71.158.149.97

Please follow Wikipedia policies regarding WP:V and WP:RS. —Viriditas | Talk 05:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

If people can't come up with sources to back up criticism of Berman, then it shouldn't be mentioned here. And please if you are going to add sources, postings to discussion forums aren't suitable. AlistairMcMillan 23:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Numerous critics, messageboards, etc. It's a general vibe, and although I could quote off several of the more caustic scifi magazine articles on the subject, they are a tad too numerous to metnion. Either contribute to the situation and stop hiding behind empy procedure and red tape, or simply let the matter drop. --Ricimer 07:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
WP:VERIFY. 2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be removed by any editor. 3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it. AlistairMcMillan 19:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

google "enterprise continuity b&b" you will get enough sources to convince you of the trek communities unhappiness with both rick berman and brannon braga 75.14.223.20 10:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry but I also have to agree here you must site the source. Since critism of someone is potentaly libelous you must site a repatable source (at least a newspaper article). This procedure is in place to protect Wikipedia from a lawsuit so please respect it. Andrew D White 19:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)