Talk:Richard Speck

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Contents 1 Chicago Sun-Times series 2 I'm not sure this sentence reads right 3 Should we add a link to Crimelibrary.com? 4 Improving this article 5 Changing layout 6 Odd reference 7 Cleanup needed 8 Psychiatry testimony 9 Areas needing work 10 Speck in Media 11 Category: American Rapists

[edit] Chicago Sun-Times series

The Chicago Sun-Times is running a series about Speck, starting with http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-speck10.html. Cheers, CWC(talk) 16:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm not sure this sentence reads right

"Prior to the nurse murders, Speck is known to have been arrested for burglary and stabbing, although he got away with raping Virgil Harris (65), and beating Mary Kay Pierce to death; in both cases, he avoided in-depth interrogation."

I don't know anything about he case but "he got away with" doesn't read as the right language for what the writer is saying. Thoughts?

I kinda see what you mean. Not sure if rephraseing that is what your looking for, but maybe adding something to the effect that "in both cases, he avoided in-depth interrogation which might have brought him to the attention of law enforcement personel sooner in relation to the later murders" Would need some re-wording, but I think you have an idea what I'm suggesting. Coradon 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should we add a link to Crimelibrary.com?

Not too familiar with Wiki policy, but I was looking up additional info after hearing his name on a show, and http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial%5Fkillers/predators/speck/ seemed to contain additional and more detailed info that was not included with the Wiki on him. Should we add a link to that site/article, or incorperate the extra info to his wiki page.

[edit] Improving this article

Hi. Not much action here for awhile. The subject needs serious resourcing and I propose to line up what I can and place it on the external links. Getting primary sources (court records for example) will be a problem but let's see what good secondary sources we can get. Malangthon 16:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

External Link: Carpenoctem.tv. is technically a small independent media source. It does not cite references but much of what is written was stated elsewhere in mainstream media sources. As such it is pretty average for Wikimedia but it is fairly well written. If anyone has a problem with it, don't just delete it, let us know here on the talk page. I have sent the site owners a request for background references and will post them here.

We can use sites like this for initial references and then move on primary sources but we are building now so . . .. Someone here said they'd had a teacher who was on the trial jury. Any chance of getting a source for actual trial records and the news being reported in Peoria and Chicago during the trial? In some cities you can just pick up the phone and ask for references for court records and even view them without much trouble--if you are so inclined.Malangthon 17:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Crime Library: Someone here mentioned putting this link on the article. I say yes to that. It cites its sources, to wit:

Bibliography

• Dennis L. Breo and William J. Martin (1993) Crime of the Century; Richard Speck and the Murder of Eight Student Nurses. William J. Martin was the prosecutor that succeeded in getting Speck imprisoned.
• Jack Altman and Marvin, Ziporyn, M.D (1967) Born to Raise Hell: The Untold Story of Richard Speck. The Man, The Crime, The Trial by . Grove Press, According to Crime Library, Dr. Ziporyn interviewed Speck approximately twice a week over a period of six months before Speck's trial and was an expert witness for Speck's defense.
• Jay Robert Nash (1995) Bloodletters and Badmen. M. Evans and Co. Contains a chapter on Speck
• Additional information is available from Chicago newspapers, such as the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Times

Malangthon 17:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changing layout

Ok, we're going to have a more readable, more detailed article here, and the first thing that has to happen is a layout arrangement for the subheadings, and I'll work on that over the weekend:

• Lead paragraph...include slightly more detail, and polish it for a better introduction.
• Early life...remove the choppyness of the sentences; add relevent detail.
• Early crimes...separate subheading for that subject.
• Mass murder...extensive detail about what he did to the nurses.
• Search and capture...the way he eluded police and how he was caught demands a separate subheading.
• The trial
• Sentencing and re-sentencing...both can be combined.
• Prison life...this also can benefit from detail.
• Death
• The video

If anyone can get pics uploaded and tagged, post them within this page...they will be used. Carajou 21:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

According to Time magazine, http://www.time.com/time/2007/crimes/9.html, there were not 9 nurses. There were 8. A friend was visiting, and Speck expected 8 women. After killing the guest, he never looked for the last nurse, thinking he'd killed them all.

News sources are much better to use if they are dated to the time it took place, rather than some fourty years later, hence the newspaper image. What I think would be better would be a list of the victims and their status in the apartment at the time, because frankly Speck didn't really care about the number there...he didn't care about anything for that matter. Carajou 17:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Odd reference

Of what relevance is Simon and Garfunkel's song, "7 O'Clock News?" It's listed at the bottom, but I can find nothing of relevance in the article to the song. What am I missing?

[edit] Cleanup needed

This article has a number of grammatical errors, such as problems with tense, interspersed throughout, so I've placed the {{cleanup}} template. --Yksin 18:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Psychiatry testimony

Added information about the "leading psychiatrist" who said Speck had the Madonna-whore complex, including identifying him, adding information published about his motives and outcomes, from Crime of the Century. At the same time, I did some rearranging of the section regarding the murders. Wildhartlivie 05:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Areas needing work

Three major points need attention:

First, the issue regarding XYY theory needs expanding and reworking. There is conflicting information out there regarding whether this was used in initial trial preparation or in preparation for appealing the death penalty. A personal bias of mine is the reference from the Crime Library which, to my experience, often has errors. The portion dedicated to XYY is nearly verbatim from that site. I am researching this area at this time.

Another area that needs attention is the paragraph that starts with the use of the nickname birdman, and ends with the statement Speck allegedly made regarding having 1200 years. This needs a citation.

The last point is technically correct for citations, but seems awkward in context of the rest of the article. The early life section has 3 paragraphs which are cited from the Time-Life book. Wouldn't it be more consistent to format these citations in the same manner as the rest of the article?Wildhartlivie 01:50, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speck in Media

The comment left was not intended to be personal, but only a description of why I did what I did so it wouldn't be seen as simple vandalism or whatever. Sorry if it felt personal. I have added the movie and CSI episode back to the Speck in Media section. There is another movie mentioned which is only based on Specks story (and not an accurate retelling) and I have sourced them both to IMdB. If you watch closely you'll see at the trivia section of the movie (in IMdB) that its based on Specks story. Everybody who wants to can borrow (or buy or whatever) these movie or CSI episode and verify what is written in Wikipedia. You'll need no dissertation to know if a song is sung about Richard Speck, you'll need none for a movie or CSI episode either. ColdCase (talk) 00:15, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category: American Rapists

The only mention of rape in this article that I found was "Although he was a suspect in the rape of Virgil Harris (aged 65)" if he was not convicted by the court I do not think we can label him a rapist. Did he rape any of the nursing students? If he was a rapist I think we should establish proof within the article. Bronayur (talk) 21:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)