Talk:Richard Carrier

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This article was nominated for deletion on April 10, 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

An individual covered by or significantly related to this article, Richard Carrier, has edited Wikipedia as RichardCarrier (talk · contribs)

Archives

*2006

Contents 1 Speedy 2 Some of the references... 2.1 Full refs 3 Is this really enough for Notability? 4 WikiProject class rating 5 I Am Not Gravitationalist

[edit] Speedy

Not quite sure what is going on here as Carrier is more than notable enough to justify a page. Its been kept brief as it attracts some uncharitable characters but it gives useful links to the guy who is so well known on the web due to the infidels website. Sophia 07:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some of the references...

Dumping the refs in case they are ever used to source something. I will remove them from the article as the actual source for the fact that he has written these papers is his list of publications. --Merzul 17:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

• "Whence Christianity? A Meta-Theory for the Origins of Christianity" in Journal of Higher Criticism.^[1]
• "The Argument from Biogenesis: Probabilities Against a Natural Origin of Life" in Biology & Philosophy.^[2]
• "Hitler’s Table Talk: Troubling Finds." in German Studies Review.^[3]
• "The Function of the Historian in Society." in The History Teacher.^[4]
• "The Guarded Tomb of Jesus and Daniel in the Lion’s Den: An Argument for the Plausibility of Theft" in Journal of Higher Criticism.^[5]
• "Pseudohistory in Jerry Vardaman’s Magic Coins: The Nonsense of Micrographic Letters." in Skeptical Inquirer.^[6]

[edit] Full refs

1. ^ Carrier, Richard (September 2005). "Whence Christianity? A Meta-Theory for the Origins of Christianity". Journal of Higher Criticism 11 (1): 22-34. 
2. ^ Carrier, Richard (November 2004). "The Argument from Biogenesis: Probabilities Against a Natural Origin of Life". Biology & Philosophy 19 (5): 739-64. 
3. ^ Carrier, Richard (October 2003). "Hitler’s Table Talk: Troubling Finds". German Studies Review 26 (3). 
4. ^ Carrier, Richard (August 2002). "The Function of the Historian in Society". The History Teacher 35 (4): 519-26. 
5. ^ Carrier, Richard (Fall 2001). "The Guarded Tomb of Jesus and Daniel in the Lion’s Den: An Argument for the Plausibility of Theft". Journal of Higher Criticism 8 (2): 304-18. 
6. ^ Carrier, Richard (March-April 2002). "Pseudohistory in Jerry Vardaman’s Magic Coins: The Nonsense of Micrographic Letters". Skeptical Inquirer 26 (2): 39-41,61. 

[edit] Is this really enough for Notability?

So far it seems that we have:

1. He used to publish a (just notable) website on which he published lots of his articles
2. He once appeared in a documentary
3. He has been mentioned in a couple of newspaper articles about someone else.
4. He has published in 4 obscure journals, one of which is defunct, and in an atheist web publication
5. He only sole-authored book was published by a "vanity publisher"
6. He has contributed a chapter and (apparently) a few articles to 2 other books.
7. One argument he makes is mentioned in one published paper
8. His website is mentioned in passing by a world-class philosopher
9. Someone posted an "exclusive interview" with him on "Associated Content" which is a kind of group Blog.
10. He is mentioned by some other websites

If we tried to assert notability for a theist on this basis I think we'd be laughed out of court. is there more, or in the view of the learned editors who support this, is this enough? NBeale 18:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, yawn... Compare and contrast Nicholas Beale, perhaps? Snalwibma 18:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

. . . created appropriately on the first of April. Laurence Boyce 19:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I've added a reference to a newspaper article of which Carrier is actually the main subject. This is a brief (174-word) report on an upcoming speech by Carrier at a local event. If the newspaper published anything on the speech after it had been given, LexisNexis couldn't find it. EALacey 19:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

At least all the info here is verifiable. And Carrier doesn't edit his own article to pad it out with refs. I've never met the guy - I started the article as I had come across the Secularweb with his writings and seen him in the documentary. He is very well known on the web (especially in America where whole tracts are written by the faithful to refute what he has written) and I was very surprised he didn't have an article already. I always wondered whether the timing of this AfD was somehow linked to disputes elsewhere. Sophia 20:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I concur, Carrier is more than notable enough.Giovanni33 20:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Nicholas Beale has more than enough verifiable information to write an advocacy journalism style glorified biography, while Richard Carrier has no reliable sources whatsoever... After all, Richard is just briefly mentioned on some websites... with so little information about him it will be impossible to write a glorified resume! If there are only some worthless essays about his opinion by other people, what can we say about his notability?? Surely, Wikipedia is here as a promotion agency, surely it is the number of publications that matter. Richard hasn't even filed a single patent, so why is he talking about religion? Delete this article, please... --Merzul 20:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

If someone is doing research into atheism or the historical Jesus from a secular point of view on the web, you are going to run across Richard Carrier's name, if not articles by him. Sure, he doesn't have a PhD (isn't a requirements that everyone who has an article have a degree), and sure he may be more of a 'pop' historian than a True Scholar, but the very fact alone that he is a 'pop' historian, ergo popular, solidifies his notability. So he is a web celebrity, so he isn't a true scholar, these are the sort of things you can use to attack him during an academic debate, but they are useless here at wikipedia. In the realm of online atheists, he is a celebrity. I find it strange that the most vocal complaints are coming from someone who is defending notability concerns director towards his own article (which I agree is not quite an encyclopedia article, as much as an overblown resume.) -Andrew c 21:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Richard Carrier is notable enough to be listed in the book Who's Who in Hell (compiled by Warren Allen Smith, 2000, Barricade Books). The entry (p. 186) reads: "Carrier, Richard C. (20th Century) Carrier, when a student at Columbia University in 1998, signed the Campus Freethought Alliance's Bill of Rights for Unbelievers." His entry appears right after Asia Carrera and before Moritz Carriere. Lippard 22:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Richard now figures prominently in the New York Times story about former atheist philosopher Antony Flew's new book about his conversion that was actually written by Christian evangelists, which I've added as a reference to this article. Lippard 05:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:24, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I Am Not Gravitationalist

This bio says that "Carrier makes regular video and written contributions to YouTube, where he uses the nickname 'Gravitationalist'." This is not true. As I am Richard Carrier, I ought to know. I do not post on YouTube at all and I have no idea who Gravitationalist is.

RichardCarrier (talk) 20:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Very recent vandalism by an anon IP. Now fixed. Snalwibma (talk) 20:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)