Talk:Rice congee

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[edit] Why called "congee"

I would like to know why its called "congee"? My *guess* is that its from "congealed". If anyone knows or has time to find out, please update the article! cbm 05:05, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

I have an Indian friend and one time when our housemate was sick, he suggested boiling some rice in water and drinking the water, and of course, eating the rice. The concotion he described sounded very much like Congee and when I asked him what his culture called it, he said, Kunji.

Unfortunately, I neglected to ask him from what part of India he came from and what language they spoke.

Wolf ODonnell 12:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

seems this is now answers in the article: from Tamil kanji. cbm 20:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suspension variety

Isn't there a variety of congee where it's more about rice suspended in broth/water? It's a non-Cantonese variety. --Madchester 02:24, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Are you meaning the Teochiu-style? :-) — Insta ntnood 08:13, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Okayu

Should Okayu be merged into this article? Or should each of the variants of congee merits its own entry? (Please respond at talk:Okayu#Merge.) — Insta ntnood 09:18, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

I think the two should merge, okayu is just japanese for "white congee". As such, I threw on the merge-to in Okayu and merge-from here. --Sjschen 05:15, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it's not necessarily appropriate to merge Okayu into this article. Congee is a very popular breakfast eaten with Youtiao, and Congee shops are found everywhere in China. However, it rarely happen in Japan. Because it is widely believed that Okayu is a meal for toddlers (baby food), patients or for elderly persons, so Okayu shop cannot be hardly ever found in Japanese city area. But, in zen temple, Okayu is a very popular breakfast in Zen temple in Japan. It is believed that Okayu is poor meal, and also believed Buddhist should be content with plain living. Thus, I think there are differences in culture between China (or Korea) and Japan. I hesitate to merge Okayu into this article.
- Opponent 14:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

What I think we need to do is distinguish between the cultural vs. "what it is". For example, "pinto beans and rice" (aka Gallo Pinto) was a common staple for people growing up poor in the Southern United States and, for this man at least, it is a satisfying dinner. Folks in other areas of the United States see that as "missing a main course". Nothing is different about the beans and rice, however how they are viewed ends up being more of a cultural footnote. In this light, I believe that Rice Congee and Okayu should be merged with appropriate cultural context.
- FeloneousCat 02:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I support a merge.

In China, congee is also seen as a food for patients, or for those who need to eat something which is easy to digest, as well as being a normal food.

Having a separate Japanese congee article, or a congee article in which Japanese congee is the only type of congee with its own separate section seems to me to be just part of the wider phenomenon of identifying Japanese culture as somehow unique, different from, and unconnected to similar surrounding cultures. Using the word “okayu” is also part of this.

I think we should have either one congee article with a general description and then each type in its own section under its own name, or separate articles for all the different types. LDHan 16:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should it be Okayu or Kayu?

In a Japanese dictionary or encyclopedia, it would be listed under kayu, not okayu. Okayu is the conversational form. This is perhaps a common way to refer to the Japanese dish in English, but is it correct style for Wikipedia? 58.94.188.176 15:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

User:Alanmak's comment in an edit to the article (23:24, December 5, 2005): "I suggest making a template to show all the ways used to refer to rice congee in different countries." — Insta ntnood 08:42, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Okayu for the sick -- not only Japanese

The association of eating congee when you're sick is not only a Japanese association. It also exists in Chinese culture, and strongly so. Thus, I'm curious as to why in this article, Okayu is given the distinction that associates Okayu with the sick as if it only existed in Japan.

A similar, although less extreme, situation exists in Bengali culture. Jau is very often fed to expectant mothers, young children, and sick people, even if it can also be had as a breakfast food. In this way, it is similar to chicken soup in the US, which can of course be a normal meal but is often associated with sick people. I agree that the Japanese version need not get special attention with respect to this fact, if it is true that many congee-eating cultures view the food the same way anyway. --SameerKhan 03:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Different types of congee

I suggest we create a "congee" article, with different types of congee explained (e.g. rice, tapioca, bean, etc. /meal or dessert) Right now it seems like there is only "rice congee".

[edit] ZHOU rather than OKAYU

In South China, particularly in Guangdong and Hong Kong, rice congee(zhou)is consistently served as staple food, primarily for breakfast but also for lunch or dinner. Beef, pork, fish, peanuts, cuttlefish, etc. are regularly added for different cuisine of zhou. Most local restaurants serve some kind of zhou as part of traditional chinese food.

Historically, zhou was also the preferred means of rice cooking during bad harvest since it takes less rice to cook.

Both in terms of breadth and depth, zhou is many time more important than okayu and should be given appropriately more space.

[edit] Isn't "rice congee" redundant?

Isn't "rice congee" redundant, since congee is by definition a rice porridge? (Does anyone know how to change the title of a Wikipedia article?) --71.244.110.187 02:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compare Congee with Xifan

I've always known "RP" as 稀饭 (pinyin: xifan,) yet the article makes no mention nor distinction. Room to elaborate? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.5.44.172 (talk) 17:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Three labels and links for Chinese are misleading

The second, third and fourth labels and/or links for 粥 in different varieties of Chinese in this article's box are misleading:

There is a piped link to Taishan dialect in the label "Sei Yap". According to Wikipedia, however, Sei Yap and Tóisàn are not the same thing; rather, the latter is only one of several Sei Yap dialects: The second paragraph in the Cantonese (linguistics) article says "the Taishan dialect [is] one of the sei yap or siyi (四邑) dialects", and further down, we find the phrase "Sìyì (四邑, sei yap), exemplified by Taishan dialect".

So, if [ʦuk³] is the pronunciation not only in Taishan but in all Sei Yap dialects, please change the piped link from [[Taishan dialect| to either [[Sze Yup| or [[Cantonese (linguistics)|. If there is a Sei Yap dialect which does not use the pronunciation [ʦuk³], please change the label from "Sei Yap" to "Tóisàn", "Hoisanese", "Taishan" or some such.

Since the above is part of Cantonese (粵語), it is misleading to use the label "Cantonese" for [ʧok5] in another entry, as this implies that the entries not labeled "Cantonese" are not Cantonese. How about changing it to [[Standard Cantonese|Standard<br />Cantonese]] or, if it is a general Yuehai (粵海) pronunciation, to [[Cantonese (linguistics)|Yuehai]]?

If there is a Wu dialect which does not use the pronunciation [ʦɔʔ5], please change the link from [[Wu (linguistics)|Shanghainese]] to [[Shanghainese]]. If all Wu dialects use [ʦɔʔ5], please change the label from [[Wu (linguistics)|Shanghainese]] to [[Wu (linguistics)|Wú]] or something similar. Thank you. Wikipeditor 20:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mandarin name

According to the article, the Mandarin name for congee is 粥. I'm only an intermediate Mandarin speaker, but I thought it's called 稀飯 in Mandarin? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

congee=porridge=粥(zhou, pronounced as the word Joke without k)= 稀飯(xifan, pronounced approximately like sifan or shifan). 粥 can appear in both written and spoken Chinese, and 稀飯 appears more frequently in spoken language. --ARMOR

Same question was asked on a Taiwanese BBS, and someone looked up the official dictionary in Taiwan... The Dept of Education officially equated the two... zhou is same as xifan. -- Kschang77 17:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Variations of Chinese Congee

zhou does have several Chinese varieties that bears discussion.

Most people associate congee with Cantonese version, as that is the most widely available, due to proliferation of Chinatowns. Cantonese congee, or if you prefer Cantonese pronunciation, "jook" or "juk", is almost glue-like consistency, with almost NO whole kernels. Common recipes in Chinatown includes:

yu-peen juk -- juk with slices of fish, usually sole or cod, deboned
gai juk -- juk with chicken, may or may not be deboned
pei-dang sow-yok juk -- juk with century egg (pei-dang) and salted pork (no fat)
tien-jai juk -- juk with cooked peanuts and pork liver / kidney slices
ju-hong juk -- juk with congealed pork blood cubes
bak juk -- literally, "white juk", or just plain juk

Juk must be served piping hot or it's worthless. Often, the other ingredients are cooked, but unheated, and kept near the kitchen. When ingredients are called for, they are left at the bottom of the serving bowl, and hot congee is added on top. The eater can then stir the congee and mix up the ingredients him/herself.

Other style of Chinese jook is basically watery rice. Cantonese is "pao-fan" which literally means "rice soaking (in soup)". Soup this case means high quality stock, beef, chicken, pork, etc.

There was this legend about how to eat congee. Once there was this prosperous village, and the village chief has a beautiful daughter, who is also quite smart. She likes someone who is rather poor, but also very bright, but he can't seem to impress the village chief. In fact, the village chief organized a special event... inviting the best bachelors from 100 "li" (Chinese "mile") in various contests. The winner of the three event contest shall marry his daughter and inherit the villge chief title. With a little coaching from the girl, the "hero" managed a tie with other contestants, or at least were not eliminated from two events. The third event was a secret, and she was of no help. The contest: eating a bowl of extremely hot congee. Whoever finishes fastest was the winner. The "hero" demonstrated the "layer" technique... skim the surface, which is cool enough to eat. Others tried stirring it with chopstick, blowing on it, one even burned his mouth and tongue. The hero finished first, married the girl, and lived happily ever after, and his technique for eating juk was passed down through the centuries. :) (Well, that's the version I was told any way!)

-- Kschang77 17:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

When you say "Most people associate congee with Cantonese version, as that is the most widely available,", of course you actually mean most people in the west associate congee with the Cantonese version as that is the most widely available in the west. Even in SE Asia where the majority of the overseas Chinese live, the Cantonese versions are just one of many mainly southern Chinese types of congee. And obviously within China itself, each region will have its own variation of congee which will be generally known only to that region. LDHan 18:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Me bad. I sometimes keep forgetting that I live in the USofA and that's NOT the center of the world. :D --Kschang77 07:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

--Indian "Kanji"--

This section should be updated. First, kanji is a bad spelling of the word for rice porridge in South Indian languages and leads to mispronunciation in English. Unfortunately, I can't think of what English spelling would reproduce the right sound, but I'm bringing this up so people are aware. Second, rice porridge is eaten all over South India (perhaps North India as well, but my experience does not extend this far), with the point being not only Tulus eat this.

[edit] Problem with box

Why is the Vietnamese name given in the box as a Chinese character? Badagnani 07:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Please fix this. Badagnani 07:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

That's an inherent problem with providing Chinese characters to gloss Vietnamese words without proper context. People are going to assume that Vietnamese is written with Chinese characters like their East Asian counterparts. The solution is not to mention the Chinese at all. DHN 08:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I think there's a problem with the order of names, at the moment it doesn't seenm to have any particular order at all, alphabetical would be better. LDHan 19:10, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sometimes soup instead of porridge

Chinese congee can also be a soup rather than a porridge (perhaps this depends on the recipe). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.244.192.135 (talk) 15:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Congee in Thailand

In thailand congee is a common breakfast food. It often includes either chicken, pork or king prawns (South Thailand). It is often made using chilli oil, ginger, fish sauce, sugar etc (not sure exactly) Yet much more flavoursome than the Chinese or Singapore version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.60.91 (talk) 15:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Can somebody knowledgeable please add a note on pronunciation? In particular, is the "g" hard or soft? kon-jee or kon-ghi? Bjartmarr (talk) 05:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added the IPA transcriptions for both the British and American pronunciations. It's derived from the word kanji and is thus pronounced "con-jee". --SameerKhan (talk) 17:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)