Talk:Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi

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Reviewed version: April 3, 2008
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Contents

[edit] Purpose of this page

As mentioned in this header, the purpose of this talk page is to discuss improvements to the article. Given the concerns expressed about the article's content, efforts to improve it are warraranted. The addition of adequately-referenced content, based on independent external sources, and worded in a neutral and factual manner, may avoid deletion or truncation of the article. But continued and repetitive professions of belief will be removed, and inhibit the chances of saving this article. The beliefs or faith of contributors are not being challenged, but expressions of that faith are not encylopaedic in tone, and therefore have to be removed under the policies of Wikipedia. Kablammo 21:44, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The purpose of Wikipedia

Dear Administrators,

May I take this opportunity to thank you all for including the profile of His Holiness Syedna Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi, internationally renowned spiritual personality and Founder of International Spiritual Movement Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam. I think its been already told to Wikipedia Administrators that His Holiness is the Founder of Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam (ASI)only and the Official Website of His Holiness and ASI is http://www.goharshahi.pk/ .We have some other associate websites as well listed below:

http://www.goharshahi.net/EnglishUnder-construction

http://www.goharshahi.org/Urdu

http://www.asipak.com/Urdu

http://www.sarfrosh.com/Urdu

Wikipedia is the largest Encyclopedia on NET and I am of the view that the purpose of an Encyclopedia is to include the information based on facts and realities. Only above listed websites belong to His Holiness Gohar Shahi and are the true representative of His Holiness & ASI. No other website should be consider or include into the page of His Holiness as they have no rights to represent His Holiness or ASI. It is already mentioned that so many enemies of His Holiness and ASI are actively working against His Holiness and ASI, some of them are working on NET by presenting FAKE WEBSITES with the claim that these are the OFFICIAL OR AUTHENTIC websites of His Holiness, which is totally wrong. You must have noticed that as soon as this article was written by one of our fellow, the enemies of His Holiness and ASI started to create obstacles by unnecessary amendments and creating link or irrelevant websites under the umbrela of different names. Therefore, I would like to request WIKIPEDIA ADMINISTRATORS that either restrict the rights of amendments for this page to only for the Iamsaa (Creator of this page)and WP. Make it sure that nobody who is wrongly representing His Holiness Gohar Shahi, should not be include into the page of His Holiness.

Moreover, I have noticed that this article hasn't got much information about His Holiness, I would like to further request to give sometime and we will get back to you shortly with authentic and appropriate information about His Holiness.

Kind regards,

Press & Information Secretary

Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam

Pakistan --Asikhi 05:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for editing

According to the text "was a Pakistani author, spiritual leader and founder of the spiritual movement Anjuman Serfroshan-e-Islam."

From the above text it seems that he was spiritual leader of most of Pakistanis. whereas it is not true..so please edit it to spiritual leader of his own group..which is a cult/minority{{subst:unsigne|116.58.111.34}}

That is a bizarre reading of the opening sentence. I don't see how your interpretation is remotely logical. He's a "Pakistani...spiritual leader" clearly does not equal "He's a spiritual leader of most of Pakistanis" any more than He's "a Pakistani author" equals "He's the most widely-read author in Pakistan". — Scientizzle 18:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page protection

This is getting ridiculous. Wikipedia is not here to provide an avenue for propaganda that is either pro- or against any group! I've fully protected the page since it seems there's no agreement about which external links to provide. I've tried to comprimise, keeping all of them, and I've tried removing the whole section. I'm inclined to re-remove the whole section now in a pseudo-King Solomon move: either you people work out what should stay, or nobody gets an external link to whatever warring faction they prefer.

What's it going to be? — Scientizzle 18:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, please familiarize yourselves with Wikipedia:External links. — Scientizzle 18:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protest

I strongly protest against the page protection of the article on His Holiness Gohar Shahi as being the Author of this article at least I should have the rights to amend or edit. Moreover, as I have been told earlier that a group of enemies is working against His Holiness Gohar Shahi but they pretend to be follower of His Holiness and have developed several websites using pictures of His Holiness but the matter and the information provided on their websites is contrary to the teaching of His Holiness and Islam. Moreover, its been proved with the provided sources that His Holiness was the chief of International Spiritual Movement Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam, that’s why I strongly recommend that Official Websites which are being operated by Central Serfrosh Publication Committee, Kotri should be included into this article as it doesn’t violate WP’s External Link policy. I take full responsibility of the content on following website being Office Bearer of International Spiritual Movement Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam:

www.goharshahi.pk

www.goharshahi.net

www.goharshahi.org

www.sarfrosh.com

www.asipak.com

I hope you will retrospect your decision in the light of aforesaid facts. Regards, --سگِ گوھرشاہی 11:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

As the article's initial author you have no more right to edit this page than any other editor. Currently, if you want to edit this page, you'd need to apply {{editprotected}} here on the talk page with a clear message as the what the edit should be and its justification. The protection time is limited to prevent in-article battling over links but not to permanently prevent editing.
That said, the purpose of the protection was to encourage discussion of the appropriate external links (if any) to apply to this article. Edit warring is inappropriate. — Scientizzle 16:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Details

This article is still lacking in providing extensive information on Shahi. I think his family background, teachings, beleifs should also be added in order to make it complete.

--202.133.76.98 12:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His Holiness Gohar Shahi & International Spiritual Movement Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam

I am of the view that the Movement and the personality are two different things and they should remain seperate. Therefore, please undo the merge of His Holiness' page with Serfaroshan-e-Islam. --سگِ گوھرشاہی 09:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamsaa (talk • contribs)

I completely disagree--the movement article had no reliable sources attached to it. None. All of its notability is associated with this figure. Both pages are constantly being filled with unencyclopedic propaganda and unsourced claims. This allows all the information to be available in one location, making the separate notability a non-issue and making it simpler to keep an eye on the subject to prevent it from being overrun by agenda-driven efforts. — Scientizzle 15:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protected

Every day some IP from the same region of Pakistan continually reverts this article to an unsourced version without discussion. I've protected the article to prevent this from occurring for a while--please discuss here what changes should be made to the article in its current state. The current version is completely sourced--I know, because I wrote it. Anything added should be also. This is for everyone's benefit: unsourced additions by those fanatically devoted to Shahi open the door for unsourced additions from those opposed. Do you understand? — Scientizzle 18:06, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems totally absurd to say that Gohar Shah, who died outside of Pakistan, was murdered in Jail. Please supply factual information. We want to know which country's jail he was in when he died and what supporting evidence is there for his murder if at all - seems to me that he was one among many other 'Messiahs' and 'Mahdis' who claimed such a status throughout the 19th/20th centuries. Names such as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, Bahaullah, Elijah Muhammad and numerous others including from Christendom and Judaism come to mind - all frausters out to gain publicity, prestige and material value. Incidently, the moon has always looked the same. Fantasists will see anything in anything and hence psychoticism also comes to mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.9.41.50 (talk) 14:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quick comment

There appears to be so little in terms of reliable sources about this organisation "Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam" that I suggest we either cover it using available sources in a paragraph or so, or that we remove the section entirely and focus on the article topic (mentioning the organisation in passing). ITAQALLAH 00:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Trimming the Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam sounds perfectly reasonable to me. The organization was originally a separate page (see here) and I merged it into this article. It was clear that the version prior to the redirect wasn't going to pass WP:N/WP:V muster, and this seemed like a reasonable middle ground. I know Asikhi (talk · contribs) is keen on creating a separate page for the group--see User:Asikhi, an apparent working draft. — Scientizzle 00:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA

Falconkhe , you are a main contributer to this article and thus can not review it [1]--Be happy!! (talk) 09:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Review of Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

I'm afraid this article is not a GA, not even close. The writing is really quite bad, with lots of missing punctuation and grammar. And it's obviously written from a non-NPOV. I mean, "His Holiness Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi"? And it's not broad enough anyway.

Please do not nominate this again until it has had a thorough cleanup. Noble Story (talk) 11:11, 3 April 2008 (UTC)