Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Ebionites
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[edit] Locale
- See /Archive#Locale. -- tariqabjotu 01:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Opening statements
To kick off the mediation, I'd like to ask all parties to give an opening statement regarding the issues noted in the mediation request:
- Content that is based on editorial synthesis of source maerial
- Proper attribution of sources to support content
- The proper application of the criterion of undue weight
- Proper representation of "fringe theories" in the article
I'll have to admit; the mediation request is a bit unclear about how the issues relate to the Ebionites article specifically . I hope that'll be made clear from everyone's statements. The opening statements don't need to be, and should not be, very long. Just a couple sentences for each issue stating your position(s) and why you are adhering to that/those position(s) is fine. Please also limit your comments to your own respective sections instead of responding to the opening statements of others. -- tariqabjotu 20:46, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ovadyah
- Content that is based on editorial synthesis of source material
This is my #1 issue. We have had repeated incidents of the editorial syntheses of source material. What is the proper procedure for dealing with it? I have asked for specific evidence to support questionable statements, especially when I own the source documents and can verify for myself what is being said. The editor refuses to provide the specific evidence, so I provide it myself. Even then, when the source text is made clear on the talk page, the person refuses to retract their statements or allow them to be modified. Specific examples we have dealt with recently are 1. John the Baptist being regarded as a Messiah by the Essenes and Ebionites, 2. all of the early Christians (except Paul) being Ebionites, 3. Essenes being vegetarians, and 4. the Ebionites being the same as or deriving directly from the Essenes. All of these dubious claims have been inserted into the mouths of sources as "facts".
- Proper attribution of sources to support content
My #2 issue related to the above. This happens especially when multiple clauses are strung together and supported by multiple references. Careful checking reveals that only some of the clauses are supported. Some examples are the dubious claims that Charlesworth said John the Baptist was an Essene and that the Ebionites were Essenes. Another example is the reference of Eisenman in support of the theory that JTB was the Priestly Messiah and Jesus was the Davidic Messiah, whereas in reality Eisenman mentions JTB in passing as a messianic leader and questions whether Jesus even existed. Even when the specific text is laid out on the talk page, this particular editor refuses to correct the references or allow them to be modified.
- The proper application of the criterion of undue weight
A particular editor claims that there is no such thing as undue weight and that all POVs, even the most fringe, must be allowed in the article. I contacted Fringe theories/N for an opinion on how to weight the Essenes as being the same as or direct precursors to the Ebionites. The opinion was ignored.
- Proper representation of "fringe theories" in the article
Related to undue weight, the same editor claims that editors should not be allowed to decide what is a fringe theory. This applies to authors as well as sources. An example is Jacob Rabinowitz, who personally added material to the article from his self-published website. His name was added all over the article. I asked for an opinion about Rabinowitz from Reliable sources/N, and they say not reliable. The opinion was ignored.
I have cleaned up the worst of these problems as of the last version. Ovadyah 19:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
My understanding is that the purpose of formal mediation is to mediate a dispute over content not user conduct. My interest with respect to this mediation process is to improve the content of the Ebionites article. Ovadyah 00:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- The original reason given for the removal of my issues was "rmv conduct issues - everyone has no[w] agreed to enter into substantive discussions in good faith" which indicates that the scope could have been broader to include conduct issues. Anyway, I can't have much confidence in a process where my concerns are not even responded to, so I have withdrawn, case closed. --Michael C. Price talk 08:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
What do we do now? Ovadyah 12:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Stop assuming bad faith and engage in substantive debate on the Ebionite talk page. --Michael C. Price talk 21:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] MichaelCPrice
There was a section for additional issues to be included. I added my issues, which have been deleted without discussion. The content issues (raised by Ovadyah) follow from the misconduct issues I highlighted. Since my issues are not being discussed I am, with great regret, withdrawing from the mediation process. --Michael C. Price talk 07:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
