Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/RodentofDeath

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[edit] Comments from Uninvolved Users

[edit] Comment by MER-C

I could understand the concerns about this following the RFC so quickly but this, yesterday shows that he still hasn't got the message and that the RFC has probably failed. MER-C 02:57, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment by uninvolved Fut.Perf.

This has been inactive for 5 days. Can I ask the committee to at least resume deliberation if they are going to accept the case? In my opinion, the RfC and the links cited above have made it abundantly clear that a ban is needed, and frankly, I'm astonished it wasn't made back in May after this. Waiting for more reactions on the RfC isn't going to add anything new to the case. If the committee isn't going to address this, then the community will have to, but the current state of limbo here prevents further action elsewhere at this time. Personally, I'd prefer to see it handled by the committee, as they are in a better position to check if there are behavioural problems (COI etc.) on the other side too. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Statement by Isotope23

I've had slight peripheral involvement with the named parties in the past and I'll simply state my belief that the WP:RFC isn't all that likely to have much appreciable effect on editor behavior in this case. Both of the named parties have a strong POV and neither appears, at least in my view, to be able to set that POV aside. At least one of the parties is difficult to work with and shows all the hallmarks of tendentious editing. Both of them should be staying far, far away from Angeles City related topics; there is no place for agenda-driven editing here.--Isotope23 talk 16:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from RodentofDeath

Any conflict with me stems from the insertion of false information into Angeles City related articles. The false information and misrepresentation of citations is done almost exclusively by the user susanbryce.

[edit] susanbryce has introduced serious WP:NPOV violations, contentious editing and original research into Wikipedia articles

[edit] part 1 before RodentofDeath joins wikipedia

  • susanbryce states her agenda: Ok, I have started to add a section on "Human Slavery and Trafficking in Angeles". This is absolutly essential given the horrors of what is taking place in Angeles today. All the article is well cited from various recognized sources. Mostly I will uses sources from human rights organizations and will be inviting them to add more to the article as well. I will continue to update this article over time. [1]
  • Another section is needed on the corrupt police and government officials who support this shocking illegal prostitution trade.[2]
  • her very first edits: This article on Angeles is total rubbish, Angeles is a city under the control of organized crime. Their operations include prostitution, money laundering, gun running, kidnap, snuff movies, extortion, drugs and a range of other criminal activities. I totally dispute this article and suggest changes that reflect the true nature of this brutal city and its shcking prostitution trade that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of women and children....susan bryce.[3]
  • Whats needed here is a major section on the bruta;l prostitition trade in angeles including facts and figures. Another section is needed on the killing filds of Angeles where the dead bodoes of thousands of women and children killed by the gangs of Angeles are buries. Another section is needed on the corrupt police and government officials who support this shocking illegal prostitution trade.[4]
  • susanbryce makes unsupported and false information: Angeles has the worst rate of traifficking of women and children in the sex slavery trade in the world.[5]
  • inserts link to petition she wrote here: [6] for the citation of "the killing filds of Angeles where the dead bodoes of thousands of women and children killed by the gangs of Angeles are buries." [7]
  • susanbryce blanks the page [8]
  • susanbryce inserts unsupported claim: The organized crime gang od the Yakuza is prominent in Angeles and trafficks Filipina women to Japan where they are forced into sex slavery Filipinas were being sold in Japan by the Yakuza, at $2,400 to $18,000 each.[9]
  • susanbryce inserts claim: "estimated at between 40,000 to 100,000 children held captive in forced prostitution in Angeles" (this is in a city of only 280,00)
  • susanbryce inserts claim: "In Angeles, it is estimated that 75% of trafficked slaves are children." (there has not been one documented case of slavery in Angeles) [10]
  • susanbryce inserts obviously false information: "a woman or Child is raped or killed on average every six seconds in Angeles.The bodies of these dead women and children are dumped in the fields known as the Killing Fields of Angeles" [11] (the entire population of Angeles would be wiped out in a matter of weeks at this rate.)
  • susanbryce makes the unfounded claim police officers and government officials are invloved in the sex slavery trade and also have sexually assaulted or exploited girls.[12]
  • susanbryce sets her agenda for the Human Slavery and Trafficking in Angeles article to of expose horrors taking place(to date there has been no evidence presented of either human slavery or human trafficking in Angeles) Ok, I have started to add a section on "Human Slavery and Trafficking in Angeles". This is absolutly essential given the horrors of what is taking place in Angeles today.[13]
  • susanbryce deletes other users comments (should be moved to talk page) Edit: the above is total nonsense and should be deleted. It is so ridiculous it must be a joke. Fields Avenue holds about 60 closely-policed music gogos over a distance of 2 kilometers. Police raid gogos to ensure all the girls are at least 18 years old and if any are under 18 the mamasan will be put in jail for 2-3 months until the case reaches court. The only children you will see are trying to sell bubble-gum, flutes etc, often to support local schools. [14]
  • susanbryce changes classification of city from 1st class, as the citations in the current artice prove to: "3rd world type city, high areas of slums" [15]
  • when called on the fact that 150,000 of Angeles 280,000 residents could not possibly all be prostitutes susanbryce makes unfounded claim that government census did not include women and children held captive in the brutal sex slavery trade in Angeles with figures ranging of in excess of 200,000.[16] she then apparently thinks the number she made up is not high enough so changes it to 300,000.[17] (again, the population of Angeles is about 280,000 people)
  • no child brothel has ever been uncovered in angeles yet she makes this claim: Child welfare Organization, "Preda", has led the fight against the child sex slavery trade in Angeles. Working undercover, volunteers with hidden cameras have uncovered child brothels in Angeles.[18] (a bit of advertising here for her employer?)
  • after unsupported and unreferenced claims are taken out she re-inserts them still unreferenced.[19]
  • removes list of schools from Angeles City article. [20]
  • susanbryce makes first unfounded claim of harrasment:[21]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded and unsupported claim: "Around the base a massive sex slavery trade was established by organized crime.".[22]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded and unsupported claim: "At its peak, more then 500,000 women and children were enslaved in the brutal prostition trade that was under the control of organized crime."[23]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded and unsupported claim: "After massive public protests that almost caused the collapse of the Philipinne government, the senate voted for the removal of the bases."[24]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded and unsupported claim: "The base was finally closed on November 22, 1992, to the applause of the people of the Philipinnes."[25]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded and unsupported claim: "The bases left behind one of the worst sex slavery trades in the world, thousands of dead women and children, AIDS, discarded Amerasian children and a host of other problems."[26]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded and unsupported claim: "On a positive note, thanks to the good work of welfare organizations, and certain prominant filipino and government officials, a healthy trade zone was established within the base which provides thousands of jobs to Filipinos these days. However, the gangs took advantage of this by surrounding the base with sex slavery trade."[27]
  • susanbryce re-inserts false and unsupported info about census not being accurate [28]
  • susanbryce makes unsupported claim of census is a "farce" [29]
  • conflict of interest.... claims to be battling slavery in Angeles. [30]
  • susanbryce plans to contact several Human Rights organizations to further an agenda here on wikipedia.[31]
  • susanbryce claims to have been have been shot, stabbed, assaulted: "have been shot, stabbed, assaulted, see dozens of my co-workrs kiiled, threatened, paid off". (then she later claims after a 3 month absence that she was shot again more recently). [32]
  • susanbryce misrepresents one lawyer's paper on a conference she attended as the official comments from the Australian government [33]
  • susanbryce again removes the official classification of first class city and inserts 3rd world type city, high areas of slums [34]
  • susanbryce enters unsourced claims of "Children are forced to work up to 20 hours a day and are expected to service as many as 100 customers each week." in reference to prostitution in Angeles. (1.5 million customers a week?) [35]
  • susanbryce soapboxing here [36]
  • susanbryce created Human Trafficking in Angeles article stating "It is estimated there are 150,000 girls enslaved as prostitutes in Angeles, some as young as six years old.[1] In Angeles, it is estimated that 75% of trafficked slaves are children.[2]" and "An early look at some statistics places the figure of children held captive in forced prostitution in Angeles is estimated at between 40,000 to 100,000.[4] More recent figures place it at higher then 150,000.[5]" [37]
  • susanbryce inserts unsupported (and false) information "The sex slavery and human trafficking trade in Angeles has resulted in numerous public protests around the world. Several million people gathered in Rizal Park, Manila to protest against the sex slavery trade in Angeles."[38]
  • susanbryce changes actual classification of angeles to "slum" for the third time [39]
  • susanbryce makes unfounded claims of gangs making billions, people held in cages, etc... [40]
  • susanbryce states her agenda "im going to be expending this article soon to include a lot on human trafficking in Angeles and how the gangs traffick the slaves in and out of angeles around the philippines and across the world with details on how they do this."[41]
  • susanbryce inserts false information that first philippines case of AIDS was in Angeles (first case was in manila. references can be provided) [42]
  • susanbryce inserts false information that it is illegal to force someone to take AIDS test. [43]
  • susanbryce inserts unsourced claims of rape (with racist overtones) "Bar staff are frequently raped by expatriate owners." [44]
  • susanbryce inserts inflammatory "Some men said that it served them right to be infected by men." in reference to AIDS. [45]
  • susanbryce claims "Since the early days of Clark Air Base, Angeles City has become known as a centre for Human Trafficking and Sex Slavery" in the Angeles City article then uses the Human Trafficking in Angeles article she wrote as a reference. [46]
  • susanbryce attacks other editor for removing unsourced and poorly sourced content, some of which was sourced to an online petition susanbryce wrote herself!!! [47] after this exchange the other editor stopped contributing to wikipedia.
  • susanbryce makes claim that well financed pedophiles are the reason for the Angeles City article on wikipedia not having a Sex Slave section. [48]
  • susanbryce calls for international support for her biased POV: I will contact several Human Rights organizations and ask them to join in on this discussion and while I request Internation Welfare Agencies to join this talk. [49]
  • susanbryce claims dozens of co-workers killed. claims she herself has been stabbed, assaulted and shot. this is before she claimed to be shot a second time in 2007. susanbryce also claims major news outlets do not write about sex slavery in Angeles not because it doesnt exist, but because they are afraid of being bombed, killed, or having their family killed. [50]
  • this is still an ongoing source of contention. susanbryce falsely represents something as an official statement by the government of Australia. in actuality it is one lawyer's paper presented to her employer, the australian law reform commision, on a conference that the lawyer attended in manila. in this paper the lawyer relays second hand information heard at the conference held by women's rights activists about issues in the philippines. there is little or no fact checking done and the paper contains blatantly false information. an example is that shuttle buses ferry people to Angeles from the airport. no such shuttle buses exist. [51]
  • susanbryce claims "sex slavery is a major and the most dominant part of life in Angeles" [52]
  • Original Research (with absurd conclusions) on 2000 census. the 300,000 figure is the one she fabricated above: "Now, I also want to go back to that absurd censis figure of 267,788 people in Angeles. When we look at the above links, we see a range of figures but forward on child prostition with figures as high as 300,000 child prostitutes in Angeles. These figures directly provide proof that the censis is a complete farce and I request that some addition should be made that shows that the censis in innacurite and in dispute because it fails to include those women and children held prisoner in the sex slavery and human trafficking trade." [53]
  • susanbryce makes claim "Angeles is regarded as one of the most desperate areas in the world for child prostition. It is estimated 150,000 girls work as prostitutes, some as young as six years old." with citation to salvation army article. the salvation army article copies the earlier online petition written by Susan Bryce word for word. i have no doubt that if susanbryce is allowed to fabricate and insert false information such as this into wikipedia then wikipedia would then be used to further a smear campaign against Angeles City. [54]
  • susanbryce uses arrest report of man, Mr. Mathews, subsequently acquitted of charges (BLP violation?). this report is used repeatedly throughout susanbryce edits as proof of human trafficking in Angeles even after being informed he was acquitted. [55]
  • susanbryce inserts statistically impossible numbers into article with no references "Children are forced to work up to 20 hours a day and are expected to service as many as 100 customers each week." [56]
  • susanbryce admits to writing article on "killing fields of angeles" which includes statistically impossible claims and is later the subject of an investigation by the Senate of the Philippines. [57]
  • susanbryce again intentionally misrepresents the above mentioned paper submitted to the Australian Law Reform Commission as an investigation by the Australian government into sex slavery in Angeles. [The Government of Australia and Australian Law Reform Commission undetook an investigation into sex slavery and Human Trafficking in Angeles]
  • susanbryce inserts the uncited and completely fictional "Several million people gathered in Rizal Park, Manila to protest against the sex slavery trade in Angeles." [58]

[edit] Part 2 - susanbryce 11/2007 edits

  • removes well cited information from PREDA article [59]
  • inserts incorrect information again [60] that was already corrected. organization was not started by either government. they do not have an office on Clark.
  • inserts unsupported claim there are thousands of homeless children on the streets of Angeles City [61]
  • interprets blog entry[62] on police preventative anti-vagrancy campaign as "police HAD TO RESCUE children to protect them from pedophiles" [63] inserts the obvious NPOV violation and unsupported claim "pedophiles hounding the area"
  • inserts incorrect information already proven false that the first HIV cases were in Angeles [64] (first case was in manila. citations provided if necessary).
  • removes well cited and direct quote that laws are severe and strictly enforced [65]
  • inserts underage workers as proof of human trafficking [66] (employing a minor is not human trafficking)
  • changes charges of employing minors to "employing minors in obscene exhibitions and indecent shows, and for inducing child prostitution" which is of course not only not true but also not cited. [67]
  • changes direct quote from news article of "illegal recruitment" to "trafficking" [68]
  • introduces original research of "enforecement is inconsistent" despite direct quote from citations "law is strictly enforced" [69]
  • adds abortion information to Human Trafficking article [70]
  • removes well cited "In 2007, Angeles City Police issued statement saying there is no truth to reports of a human trafficking problem." [71]
  • strangely demotes Judge Pinto from Philippine's Judge to Angeles City Judge. (original research?) [72]
  • implies that police procure prostitutes in Angeles by inserting nationwide comment into Angeles city article. [73]
  • again inserts nationwide commentary as evidence this is happening in Angeles [74]
  • once again inserts more nationwide comments as evidence this is a local problem [75]
  • inserts statement on police abusing prpostitutes. first, prostitution is not human trafficking (the subject of the article) and secondly, it is again a national statement. there is nothing to support this happens in Angeles. [76]
  • inserts results of 1999 survey instead of more current version of same survery because 1999 survey has higher numbers of STD infections. this was already corrected before but it is now re-inserted. [77]
  • starts edit warring by re-inserting information about corrupt politicians. not one citation even remotely mentions Angeles. [78]
  • re-inserts information from blog about underage employment (which is not human trafficking) as proof of human trafficking [79]
  • inserts uncited (and since the editor is founder of NGO in Angeles, this would be a COI and advertisement) "welfare organizations have been actively involved in the fight against the child sex slavery trade in Angeles." there is no evidence of child sex slavery in Angeles. [80]
  • uses someone's blog on a university erver as citation for national statistics. by putting this into an article specific to Angeles she is claiming it happens in Angeles. [81]
  • uses Free Republic as source. this site has an open posting policy and requires no fact checking [www.freerepublic.com/help.htm#articles]. this is used as citation for claim "1,000 young children working as prostitutes in the bars". you must be 18 and licensed to work in a bar. there are regular inspections to ensure compliance. citations for this can be provided if necessary (but i'm not the one trying to put false claims into an article).
  • susanbryce again resumes edit warring by inserting information not about Angeles into the Human Trafficking in Angeles City article [82]
  • inserts unsupport "enforcement is inconsistant" in violation of NPOV, and OR. [83]
  • resumes edit war by re-inserting cases of employing minors, which isnt human trafficking, into article about human trafficking. [84]
  • again says people were convicted of prostituting children when they were actually convicted of emplying minors.[85]
  • inserts US Embassy comments into article as evidence of a problem in Angeles although Angeles is not mentioned even one time. [86]

[edit] The Horror

a large part of this arbitration seems to revolve around this article on my user page[87] which i then voluntarily removed about 1 week later. this fictional story was a direct result of susanbryce's racist fictional story in which she either claims that a)she can tell who is a pedophile just by looking at them OR b)all foreigners are pedophiles. i wrote a fictional story on my web page about a crazy lady that tried to steal a kid from their stepfather. at the time i was under the impression that you could write anything you wanted to on your user page. clearly susanbryce was able to. the story is clearly not about susanbryce unless you think she fits the description of being "a pedophile, a prostitute, a compulsive liar and severely prone to wild delusions and paranoia."

some of the arbitrators were recently looking for recent edits of susanbryce. apparently there is a distinction being made between new and old edits. i would hope this is applied evenly for all editors and there is no favoritism shown..RodentofDeath (talk) 08:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] suggested reading

the current angeles city discussion page[88] seems to be a fairly typical discussion between myself and others. i would suggest that people trying to familiarize themselves with my POV and the POV of others read this. it will also show who is being reasonable and cooperative and who is not if you take the time to read the entire thing.RodentofDeath (talk) 03:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pseudo-statement by edgarde

Susanbryce got off on a very bad foot on Wikipedia, blatantly soapboxing and responding to objections (not to mention attacks upon her) with aggressive, POV restatements. This lasted until early 2007 when she started getting help from other editors. Since then, Susanbryce has a history of attempting to work with other editors [89], sourcing her statements, and seeking help appropriately[90]. She still has a way to go, and unfortunately several impartial editors have dropped off the articles she and RodentofDeath edit.

While Susanbryce has been working on contributing more productively, RodentofDeath has been applying lessons learned to sharpen his ax. I've tacked a few examples to the Evidence page.

I cannot be considered an impartial editor since it has been months since I have been able to assume good faith on RodentofDeath's part. My main contributions lately to Susanbryce's edits have been to perform minor formatting and revert obvious WP:POVPUSH (mostly deletions) from RodentofDeath. I have seen other editors give up on RodentofDeath in what I assume is frustration.[91]

Susanbryce's recent method in the Rodent-disputed articles (notably the two Human trafficking articles) has been to boldly add information (sometimes only weakly relevant, but usually sourced) with the expectation that it will be evaluated and made encyclopedic by other editors. I would like to see Susanbryce learn to contribute in a gradually more neutral and encyclopedic fashion, perhaps by applying for Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User. RodentofDeath I would like to not see. / edg ☺ ☭ 18:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Credibility

once again, we seem to be having lies told about Angeles. it is claimed in this arbitration by susanbryce[92] that Angeles had no electricity, running water, schools, etc. while she was growing up and Angeles was a slum. a quick internet search reveals that at least one (possibly more) electric companies existed in 1923.[93] i'm fairly certain the other accusation are equally in error. RodentofDeath (talk) 05:10, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Block resets

RodentofDeath has been advised to appeal a recent block reset to ArbCom. Since this would occur off-wiki, I wish to point out that RodentofDeath has had two known instances of ban evasion (first), and the second time this occurred, his block was not moved forward.

This may be emboldening RodentofDeath to dispute the first reset. / edg ☺ ☭ 21:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)