Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Midnight Syndicate/Evidence

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anomalous_phenomenon&diff=5587219&oldid=5584644] [1].

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

The Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as Arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies, Arbitrators vote at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

Contents


[edit] Evidence presented by {User:Dionyseus}

[edit] GuardianZ is disruptive

I find User:GuardianZ to be highly disruptive. He has used his sockpuppet User:Oroboros_1 to tagteam in the Midnight Syndicate article. [2] Dionyseus 13:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GuardianZ has violated WP:NPA

User:GuardianZ has violated WP:NPA by referring to User:205.139.10.130 as a vandal [3] despite being previously warned by User:Friday not to make such claims. [4]

User:GuardianZ, editing under his sockpuppet User:Oroboros_1, again violated NPA by referring to User:Indigo1032's and User:Skinny_McGee's edits as vandalism. [5] [6]

On November 1, User:GuardianZ, editing under his sockpuppet User:Oroboros_1, again violated NPA by calling User:Skinny_McGee "paranoid." [7]

On December 9, User:GuardianZ again violated WP:NPA by referring to User:Skinny_McGee as "stupid." [8] Dionyseus 13:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GuardianZ may have evaded a block

I highly suspect that User:Peacekpr is a sockpuppet of User:GuardianZ, it was created the day after User:GuardianZ was blocked for sockpuppetry and the very first edit was an investigation into me and User:Skinny_McGee. [9] Notice that User:GuardianZ, making his third edit under his sockpuppet User:Oroboros_1, claimed to be investigating the Midnight Syndicate article, [10] this is quite similar to the investigation User:Peacekpr made into me and User:Skinny_McGee. If User:Peacekpr truly is a sockpuppet of User:GuardianZ, then User:GuardianZ has violated policy by evading a block despite being warned by User:khoikhoi on November 20 not to do so. [11] Dionyseus 05:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GuardianZ is deceptive

User:GuardianZ continues to wrongly accuse me of blanking a request [12] [13] that I clearly never blanked. Even after User:BigDT explained to him that I didn't blank the request, [14] User:GuardianZ continues to accuse me of blanking it. [[15]] Dionyseus 20:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GuardianZ is Blooferlady, who happens to be Joseph Vargo's manager and girlfriend

1. User:70.187.67.246 is User:Blooferlady. This is proven by the fact that she was having trouble editing her talkpage, [16], so she logged out and tried to fix it. [17] [18]. More proof that User:70.187.67.246 is User:Blooferlady is the fact that she tried to hide the fact that it was determined in an AfD that Joseph Vargo and his band Nox Arcana are not notable: [19], just like User:70.187.67.246 had previously tried to do: [20] [21].

2. User:Blooferlady has admitted to being Christine Filipak, Joseph Vargo's girlfriend, webmaster, and manager. [[22]] Dionyseus 21:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

3. User:Blooferlady is User:GuardianZ. Blooferlady posting under her anon User:70.187.67.246 posted a strong promotion of her boyfriend Joseph Vargo in the article Midnight Syndicate. [23] A few days later she added yet another strong promotion of Joseph Vargo. [24]. On February 13, 2006, User:GuardianZ's very first edit in the Midnight Syndicate article sounded a lot like User:Blooferlady's version, [25] note the phrase "brought Midnight Syndicate into the public eye."

Another piece of evidence that suggests both are the same person is that User:GuardianZ's very first edit was a request for the Joseph Vargo band Nox Arcana be created. [26] This is strikingly similar to User:Blooferlady's very first edit, a request for her boyfriend Joseph Vargo's band Nox Arcana to be created. [27] Dionyseus 21:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence presented by Skinny McGee

[edit] GuardianZ misrepresents the content of her references

GuardianZ has a history of twisting the facts in her cited references. Please see here [28] where I point out that the statements she is referencing with several Plain Dealer articles are not supported by the article content. Also, see here [29] for an example of her taking the article out of order and changing the meaning (the relevant section is in the "Line Citations" section and begins about six paragraphs in - GuardianZ is posting as her sock puppet, Oroboros 1). Even when confronted with the facts, she continues to improperly use the references.[30]

[edit] GuardianZ makes personal attacks

Please see the following:

  • “You’re insane.” [31]
  • “Don’t play stupid.” [32]
  • To Dionyseus [33]
  • In an attempt to discredit my contributions, she repeatedly asserts I am Midnight Syndicate founder, Edward Douglas

[34] [35] [36] [37] [38]

  • She also insults Edward Douglas here [39] (see last few sentences).

[edit] GuardianZ uses deceptive edit summaries

Her edit summary for a recent edit implies she is only removing my reference, but the diff shows she is reverting to her earlier version. [40]

[edit] GuardianZ does not accept valid references

  • While the Midnight Syndicate CD booklets clearly indicate that Linfaldia Records is the publisher, GuardianZ continues to assert that Monolith Graphics is the publisher for “Born of the Night”. This appears to be due to her misunderstanding of what a music publisher is. Despite my repeated attempts to explain this to her, she continues to list Monolith Graphics as the publisher in the article [41].
  • She is now also disputing a reference I added from Haunted Attraction Magazine because she does not like what it says [42].
  • Recently, I have attempted to change one word to indicate that it was Douglas who first made contact with Vargo. Even though this minor change is clearly supported by the radio interview she is citing, she continues to revert the edit. [43]

- Skinny McGee 00:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response to evidence presented by GuardianZ

[edit] Citations

Initially, I did remove the citations because I found them unnecessary. However, I eventually came to realize that I was stuck with them, so now I’m just trying to make sure they’re accurate. Sometimes, they are not. So, after already explaining that on the talk page[44], I remove the reference within the body of the article. However, I move the reference to the “Interviews/Other References” section at the bottom of the article, so people can still access it if they want to. [45]

[edit] Edits after protection lifted

Regarding my changes to article after protection was lifted. Since there were several things I wanted to change, and I wanted to be clear about what I was doing, I did the changes in a series of small edits with very detailed edit summaries. Overall, I didn’t feel the changes were that significant. Here is a diff from GuardianZ’s version to my last edit in that series.[46] I moved the information regarding the distribution to the beginning because I thought it fit best there (GuardianZ had inserted it in the middle of the article, very awkwardly, because she was trying to imply that Douglas hadn’t been distributing the CDs from the start). After GuardianZ objected to my placement, I moved it to the end of the article.[47]

[edit] Credits

I believe that we should use the credits as they appear in the CD booklet because that is what all parties agreed to at the time. How people are credited for their work in the entertainment industry is huge and it’s taken very seriously. I’m quite sure that both parties agreed to the credits as listed in the CD booklets. Vargo is credited as Executive Producer (that is not disputed). The publisher (per the CD booklets and BMI) is Linfaldia Records, but GuardianZ thinks the fact that Vargo purportedly financed the first few pressings of the disk makes him the publisher. I believe GuardianZ is trying to exaggerate Vargo's role in both “Born of the Night” and “Realm of Shadows”.

[edit] Radio Interview

Regarding the radio interview, I think GuardianZ is being deliberately difficult. At first, I objected to the radio interview because it was housed on the defamatory website that GuardianZ references, which was created by Joseph Vargo solely to discredit Edward Douglas and Midnight Syndicate. Since the interview was moved to another site, I have not removed the reference. In fact, I’ve been trying to use the interview to establish that it was Douglas who initiated contact with Vargo, but GuardianZ keeps on removing that. Why would Douglas have approached Vargo with his first CD if he didn’t have some interest in working together? No one is saying Douglas said “Hey, Vargo, let’s do a Halloween CD based on your artwork.” It’s entirely plausible, and supported by the Haunted Attraction article, that Douglas was interested in a darker themed CD, and when he heard the music Vargo had playing at his gallery thought he might be a good person to work with. However, GuardianZ keeps asserting that my insertion of information from the Haunted Attraction article (regarding conversations Douglas had about doing a darker themed CD prior to his first meeting with Vargo) somehow contradicts/discredits the later information. It does nothing of the sort. It just adds a bit more history while taking nothing away from Vargo. Here is an example of what I’ve added.[48]

[edit] Accusations against Dionyseus

Regarding Dionyseus, he is not anyone’s meat puppet. I believe he is someone who has kept tabs on what has been going on with the article and on the talk page, and believes that I present some valid points (or, at least, believes GuardianZ is behaving inappropriately). I appreciate his assistance with the article and find GuardianZ’s repeated attacks and accusations against him scurrilous. Dionyseus did not blank her request to change the version of the protected article and that has been explained to her several times [49][50][51], even by someone with no involvement in the dispute (BigDT here[52]). I was just thanking him for explaining to me how to add a diff after I had indicated I didn’t know how to do that (it’s turned out to be pretty handy information considering our current predicament!).

[edit] About me

I am not Edward Douglas and I do not use sockpuppets. And I did not fight listing the band’s hometown as Chardon, Ohio. I said I thought it made more sense to use Cleveland since people might actually know where that was, but said I had no objection to clarifying. [53]

[edit] Edit summaries

Regarding my “deceptive edit summary,” please see this correct diff. [54] I did exactly what I said I was doing. When my edit description read “sourced pre-Vargo material,” I was referring to the fact that the material added was about before Douglas met Vargo, and that it was “sourced” by the Haunted Attraction article. It’s a reputable source, whether GuardianZ agrees with the content or not. She has provided nothing to disprove the information (as stated above, this additional information does not contradict the radio interview or her other refs).

[edit] In summary

It seems to me that GuardianZ’s main purpose in editing this article is to paint the picture that Vargo was solely responsible for the concept, production, and ultimate success of “Born of the Night”. That is why she objects to any evidence I produce that suggests Edward Douglas and Gavin Goszka might have had a hand in it, too. That’s why she objects to the very notion that Douglas may have ever considered doing a dark CD before he met Vargo. That’s why she insists Vargo’s Monolith Graphics was publisher, that Vargo served as producer, etc. Despite what I may think of him personally, I truly have no issue with crediting Vargo for his true contributions to the band.

I think the basic problem I’m having here is that GuardianZ acknowledges nothing that contradicts her version of the truth. That is why she repeatedly accuses Dionyseus of doing things he has not done. That is why she will not accept any edit I make to the article, no matter how minor. Even when I point out that her statements are not supported by the reference, which I have previously discussed on the talk page, she continues to add the reference back in. It gets extremely frustrating.

Sorry this is so long. - Skinny McGee 03:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GuardianZ uses sockpuppets

  • It has been proven conclusively that GuardianZ used her sockpuppet Oroboros 1 to tag team the Midnight Syndicate article.[55] GuardianZ even posted on Oroboros 1's talk page.[56] Oroboros 1 has been blocked indefinitely.
  • I strongly suspect that GuardianZ and Peacekpr are one and the same, although the results of the check were inconclusive.[57] Both made posts on other user's talk pages on the evening of November 30th in which they misspelled the word 'warring' (both spelled it 'waring'). Peacekpr posted on Deathrocker's talk page[58] and GuardianZ posted on Jaranda's talk page[59]. Also, a review of all Peacekpr's contributions show a pretty clear agenda against me.[60] - Skinny McGee 19:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding evidence presented by Durova

I would just like to mention that I never claimed to be a new user. I stated several times that I edited under my IP address until I realized that was frowned upon.[61][62][63] - Skinny McGee 02:29, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence presented by {GuardianZ}

[edit] Skinny McGee sockpuppets

  • Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Skinny_McGee found to be conclusive with one other sock and 2 other sleeper socks.
  • Much of what Skinny is posting and even his discussions sound like Edward Douglas, who is attempting to discredit former band member in the Press, and who is very likely now using Wiki to do the same.
  • Skinny keeps referring to a "disgruntled business partner" in his summaries, which sounds much too personal.
  • All of the IPs that Skinny formerly tag-teamed with have pointed to Chardon, Ohio, home city of the band.
  • And since Skinny was even fighting against citing Chardon as the band's home city, it leads me to believe he really is Edward Douglas or the band's promoter. In any case, it really pretty obvious that they are from that city.
  • See the user check for all the diffs that show the suspicious behavior.

[edit] Skinny McGee does not accept valid citations, cites items already disputed, and falsly claims cites are not supportive, disruptive and uncooperative

  • Basically, the entire talk page for this article and its history shows how Skinny has reverted every single citation I made. Only after unprotection has he finally admitted some of my citations, but only after I prove them 3 times over and double-up on the references (ie: using 2 refs to prove one phrase). It got to the point where I had to insert cites between phrases and words instead of at the end of a sentence which is the normal way of citing a statement. Then, if the two were transposed (due to it being really hard to type all that in between a normal sentence), Skinny would remove ALL of my cites and edits instead of just fixing the positioning of the cites. Then he would claim they are not supportive. He simply does not want the old references in there because they show an entirely different history than what the band is now trying to publicize: that being something that discredits their former producer.
  • All throughout the discussion, Skinny will start a new arguement after being proven wrong on a previous one. Instead of admitting citations are correct and valid and leaving my edits alone, he must "one-up" everything I write. He will enter a new statement that is unverifiable and begin a whole new arguement and thereby begin a new edit war in an attempt to cloud the previous issue, which although was proven was not entirely resolved between us. [64] Talk:Midnight_Syndicate#Skinny.2C_please_don.27t_start_a_new_edit_war.

[edit] Skinny McGee attempting to rewrite history, twisting references and meanings of defined roles

  • This website [65] shows where a lot of the external sources (such as Plain Dealer Newspaper 1998 and radio 1998 versus Haunted Attraction Magazine 2006) differ between when the band was together and after Vargo started a new band. The site was published by Vargo's company, and although that in itself is not verifiable, and I understand why Skinny doesn't like it (it calls Douglas a liar), it still presents a lot of links to other external and verifiable sources, those of which I cited. I even uploaded the radio interview to another site so Skinny would stop removing the citation. The other external sources I checked in the library. And I found that they are all true. Douglas is definitely rewriting history and now is trying to use Wiki to do the same.
  • It's very obvious to me that Douglas would want to squash the radio interview nowadays, as it directly disputes what he states in 2006 in the Haunted Attraction interview in regards to crediting a person called Scott Angus with the Halloween cd concept. Skinny's repeated removal of the interview as well as all the earlier credits shows he is working along the same path of deception and dicrediting as Douglas, and that's why I believe him to be Douglas.
  • It has already been proven that Vargo fulfilled the role of executive producer. In this instance that also includes producing the music itself. The role as defined combines executive producer and music producer. The text reads that Vargo is the Executive Producer for Monolith Graphics (whose logo appears first), and that the music was Produced by Midnight Syndicate. Vargo appears in the same photo with the other band members. Vargo therefore paid for, published (through his company Monolith Graphics) and produced the album. This is also evidenced by Amazon.com lisitngs and a photo caption in the Plain Dealer newspaper.
  • Still, after all of that evidence, Skinny claims that Vargo was not in the band and claims that Monolith did not publish the album. Then Skinny refutes a valid source that announced the band's future plans which entailed Vargo leaving to publish a book and other music, while Edward and Gavin would continue as Midnight Syndicate, and re-writes it to appear as if the parting of ways was not friendly.
  • Deceptive edit summary [66]. Skinny states in his edit summary that he's changing publisher info, but then places a whole new disputed statement made in 2006 by Douglas that is proven false by the1998 radio interview.
  • Skinny then adds it again [67] stating sourced pre-Vargo info, yet the source was published in 2006, not 1998 or earlier, and is very much in dispute because it appears that Douglas is using that publication to present a different version of history than what really occured in 1998.
  • Skinny twists facts of radio interview [68]. Skinny states in his edit summary it clearly states Vargo was approached by Douglas, in an attempt to throw undue weight towards Douglas. Yet that statement is misleading. Douglas only approached Vargo as a guest of Vargo's art gallery opening in 1997 and handed him a cd (not the Halloween one but another eclectic cd). Edward did not approach Vargo with the concept for Born of the Night, nor did he approach Vargo with the Halloween concept at all. Douglas states that it was Vargo who suggested the idea for a Halloween cd based on the artist's own gothic works. The radio interview further states that Vargo was the creative director, and when the subject of producing came up, the DJ directs her question to Vargo. Also, when the subject of the concept came up, Edward stutters and also directs the question to Vargo, stating "Tell them where you came up with that one."
  • Skinny's removal of citation for Amazon.com claiming Amazon is "screwed up" [69]. This is an example of the type of thing Douglas has been accused of doing: claiming a cd is "out of print" in order to harm the sales of that cd for Vargo who continues to publish it under the Monolith label.

[edit] GuardianZ edits in article are true, verifiable, equally weighted and neutrally worded

First edit after unprotection corrects misleading info and properly credits Vargo, also credits other members and uses text that was agreed to during dicussion. Lists the correct labels and years they published, and correct city. [70]

[edit] Skinny McGee begins new arguement after being proven wrong on previous item

After that, Skinny went bonkers with about 20 edits, adding promotional text for Douglas' cd distribution company Entity right at the top, removing my citations, changing credits or "one-upping" the credits so as to be misleading such as the Scott Angus statement and the out of print statements. He finally ends up admitting Vargo's credits but only after I went through hell citing every single phrase or word in only three sentences, where previously I had only referenced the end of the sentence. I proved my statements again and again, but he tries to twist things, then he says that I try to twist them. Skinny never even cited a single thing until after the unprotection when I did it for him, using his refs and citing the appropriate passages he added (the ones not directly disputed by earlier sources).

[edit] Dionyseus as meatpuppet for Skinny McGee

Dionyseus has only reverted content to Skinny's edits to save Skinny from 3RR. He has never once offered new material and has never cited a single item. He rarely dicusses anything and offers no help. He tried to get me blocked once, reporting me for 3RR. When that didn't work, and Skinny got blocked instead, Dionyseus made one more edit, so I would then revert again, and then he got me blocked. He incited my last edit in order to get me blocked after inadvertently getting Skinny blocked. (see below for most recent abuse of making a 3RR report. I can't believe he actually did it again as I was typing this 2 days ago. GuardianZ 12:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)).

[edit] Dionyseus blanked my request for RV correct version

  • Original request [71]
  • Blanked by Dionyseus [72]
  • Thanked by Skinny McGee [73]
  • My complaint [74]

[edit] Dionyseus harrassed my user page

  • During the most heated period of the edit war, Dionyseus would revert the edits to save Skinny McGee from 3RR or report me for 3RR but not report Skinny for same. Once a check user was done for both of us (Skinny and me), Dionyseus sought me out to harrass, when I was not blocked and was also not being abusive. Meanwhile, Dionyseus did nothing to announce that Skinny was a proven sockmaster of 3 others.
  • After repeated postings of a template on my page, Dionyseus was finally told to stop [75]. But he has actively sought out every post I make and has hounded after me with each post.

[edit] Falsely accused by Dionyseus

  • I still contend I am not Oroboros. If anyone cares to check my IP again for the fourth time, you will find it has never changed. I have never used another name. Oroboros was signed in under a different IP when I was blocked. I believe Dionyseus made a false report in an effort to get me banned. The post made by Oroboros was then removed. It took me a while but I found the evidence, and here it is.
  • I don't know who Peacekpr is, but he has not incited anything, nor has he tried to come between Skinny and I as we dispute the references, nor has he tried to revert on my behalf like Dionyseus does for Skinny. Peacekpr seems to have signed on to do a check on Skinny and point out fairness and NPOV policies but that's it. I kind of suspect he or she is someone that frequents Wiki and just doen't want to draw attention to their real identity. It's not me though. I had not even known about the undue weight policy until this user pointed it out, but it sure has a lot to do with this article, and it's pretty much what I have been trying to avoid all along, but Skinny sure makes it difficult.
  • Regarding Dionyseus' claim that I "referred" to Skinny McGee as "stupid," what I said exactly was "Don't play stupid" [76] in commenting on Skinny's play of ignoring past references and meanings. I did not "call him stupid." One must first BE intelligent in order to PLAY stupid, and I know that Skinny is much too intelligent to miss my references and exactly what they mean. Again, Dionyseus twists the meanings of my words to suit his purpose. My statement only goes to show how frustrating it was to have to continually prove my edits. GuardianZ 06:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dionyseus, meatpuppetry, and false reports of 3RR

As I was preparing this report and also trying to keep up with the added deceptive editing being done by Skinny McGee, Dionyseus reported that I broke 3RR, when I did not. On December 13, I made 2 edits, none of which were abusive in any way. Prior to that day, I made only 2 actual edits, the other 2 being corrections to citing my own work and removal of unverifiable statements. None were abusive nor were they reverts.

Skinny McGee, on the other hand, kept placing text that was (1) not previously discussed and (2) was deceptive and (3) was disputed by the earlier 1998 interview. Immediately after I had removed that text, Dionyseus reverted as Skinny's meatpuppet, then hurried to request a page protection and a block for me. That same day Skinny made 3 edits, then Dionyseus jumped in on the 4th to revert and save Skinny from 3RR.

This has happened all throughout the article history ever since Skinny began editing here. GuardianZ 12:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False and misleading info being protected

While Skinny McGee places false info into the article, Dionyseus has requested protection of the page. I have requested a revert to the correct version of the page, with undisputed text, until this arbitration is finished. This act by Dionyseus shows that he is in league with Skinny to publish disinformation, just like Edward Douglas has been doing. GuardianZ 20:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of edits to article

  • When I GuardianZ began editng this article in February 2006 [77] it was to add names and credits and to rewrite what was previously a direct copy of the band's press release. Afterwards, I noted that several unsigned users began to revert back to the press release, then later populate the article with band promotions which also read as press releases.
  • The first unsigned user (a Chardon, Ohio IP address) completely removed all references and other band members and reverted to the prior press release [78].
  • Once I realized it was likely that the band was doing their own editing, I proposed the article for deletion [79] based on Wikipedia:Vanity_guidelines. The Prod template was removed by User:Friday.
  • The band's promoter User:Lizstjames who is referenced on the band's website, posted the press release again [80] so I made a second nomination for Prod [81] for the same reason. Template removed by User:JJay.
  • My comments on this are noted in the talk page Talk:Midnight_Syndicate/Archive_1 yet none of those editing the article replied, and it appeared the more senior editors who removed the Prod templates wanted to keep, so I figured the best I could do was to edit and try to introduce more facts and tone down the promotional bluster. User:JJay also removed some of the more promotional text previously placed by Lizstjames [82].
  • Perhaps my terming these people "vandals" was jumping the gun, but that is how it appeared since they were not discussing any changes and were removing ALL the content I wrote and very obviously using Wiki as a promotional platform.
  • The second confirmation that this was a vanity piece was when Edward Douglas User:Midsyndicate edited here [83]. This was the first instance of which he completely removed all of the names of those who were credited on the first, second and third albums. I found it extremely odd that Douglas would do that. He then promotes himself and future projects in a manner I consider to be grandstanding. He then forgets to sign in and posts as 152.163.100.70 to correct the link he made [84].
  • In this version [85], two other editors User:Avador and User:MarcusPan cleaned up and re-added Vargo and the other members to the credits.
  • MarcusPan (a music magazine editor) also made some comments on the discussion page Talk:Midnight_Syndicate/Archive_1#Possible_Vandalism which indicate he knew something of this matter and agreed that the others' edits were deceptive. Pan states: This should be reverted obviously, as it reads at this moment it's not only self-promotional but leaves out a huge chunk of the band's history. History is history, fact is fact, this revisionist version of it is not truthful. Where'd all the history go? 1998 to 2005 and nothing in between? Maybe if that's the case, it should be deleted as per the minimum band-listing requirements.
  • I defined a few roles per CD credits [86].
  • Then 152.163.100.70 (who I believe is Edward Douglas) shows up to alter the text, making deceptive edits, to make it appear as if Vargo had a secondary role and was hired on after Goszka [87]. This is perhaps the most devious of the deceptive editing that has continued up to and including edits by User:Skinny McGee when he signed on [88]
  • Then 64.12.116.202 (a Chardon IP address) made further edits, somewhat promotional in nature [89].
  • Vandalism: 69.177.28.38 posts some very defamatory stuff [90] and [91] then also by 205.139.10.130 in this edit [92] and finally it is removed [93] by User:Friday.
  • During all that time, I never edited even once. But, I think my using the term VANDAL was very much warranted when referring to the unsigned users.
  • Since 205.139.10.130 was indeed vandalising, I reverted their edits here as well. [94]. That was in April. After that I did not return again for almost 7 months.

While I was away for 7 months... 152.163.100.70 shows up again [95] (this is very likely Edward Douglas/User:Midsyndicate for reasons stated above) and his edit summary reads "removing link to defamatory site," the exact same summary used by the following (all Chardon, Ohio IPs):

  • 172.167.144.134 [96]
  • 67.140.88.100 [97]
  • 67.140.80.142 [98]
  • Also first arrival of User:Oroboros_1. Note some different IPs around this time which may be Oroboros, but which are NOT mine, or even close.
  • Deceptive editing by 67.140.80.142 [99] and a warning by Oroboros_1.
  • I return 7 months later.... I removed one advertising link [100] and wikify some stuff, no big deal.
  • First appearance of Dionyseus [101] who makes NO edits, has NEVER written anything to this day, and only reverts to promo hype by band and various meatpuppets.
  • 162.40.19.208 mentions "former disgruntled business partner" [102]
  • First appearance of User:Skinny McGee who's very first summary reads [103] Added content back, changed order of references to list most recent first, etc. which shows he was previously editing as 162.40.19.208 and the reference to "former disgruntled business partner" can only mean that Skinny McGee is Edward Douglas.
  • 67.140.91.34 then writes [104] Whoops - just realized reverted version was incorrect, too. Sorry! Who is he saying "Sorry" to? Is Skinny talking to himself? Using another computer (his wife's) or is that yet another meatpuppet (Lizstjames, etc.)?
  • Now this is weird [105]. Skinny says in summary: Reverting again to previously agreed upon version. Who did he previously agree with? According to Skinny he never edited before he signed in, so how does he get "previously agreed."

Returning

  • Skinny can't handle that an album is mentioned [106] as being a mold for the rest (which is how Douglas himself put it, calling Born of the Night the album that established the band's trademark sound) and yet he argues that this somehow plays up Vargo. !@!? How does mentioning an album play up Vargo?
  • Most recently, Skinny has taken to making even more deceptive and unbalanced statements [107], like changing that the two members "teamed up" to Edward "approached" Vargo. I know that sounds petty, and it is, really. But it shows how Skinny can't leave anything alone, and how he must "one-up" even the most insignificant thing. And, after losing the debate over the radio interview I had cited, he must then retaliate by placing text that belittles the reference to Vargo, text which is not verifiable.

[edit] Valid references

  • WERE Radio Interview (1998)—supporting Vargo's concept, direction and influence. Douglas states it was Vargo who suggested the gothic/horror/Halloween CD based on Vargo's gothic artwork. Radio DJ addresses Vargo when asking about producing the album. When questioned about concept of album, Douglas stutters and re-addresses the question to Vargo, saying "Tell them where you came up with that, Joe."
  • Ohio Online (1998)—supporting Joseph Vargo's role as producer/director with quote from Douglas: "Joe has a good ear for music and helped us when we’d start to get off the track."
  • Plain Dealer (1998-2000)—three articles. One article dated October 30, 2000 supports statements that Vargo's Monolith Graphics produced.
The complete photo caption reads:
Gavin Goszka (left, 30 yr. Mentor) and Edward Douglas (right, 28 yr. Chardon) write music
independently and later combine their work to create the tracks for their latest release 
Realm of Shadows. Photo by Christine Filipak. Cleveland-based Monolith Graphics has been 
creating and distributing fantasy artwork since 1991. Their line of merchandise includes posters, 
t-shirts, calendars and postcards. In 1998 Monolith Graphics produced the cd  Born of the Night 
which streamlined the music of local band Midnight Syndicate to appeal to a gothic audience. 
The success of Born of the Night spawned Midnight Syndicate's latest release, Realm of Shadows.

Skinny McGee asserts that he is looking at the photo and it reads something else, but I am also looking at it and have recieved a PDF directly from the Plain Dealer archives.

The other two Plain Dealer articles list impressive CD sales of 14,000 and 42,000 in 1st and 2nd year, quoting Edward Douglas, supporting the statement that "Born of the Night was the band's first critically acclaimed gothic/horror soundtrack and proved to be an instant success.

  • Krepuskulum (2001)—"It was the 'Born of the Night' album that really established Midnight Syndicate’s trademark sound (the dark, classical orchestration and sound effects).", states Douglas.
  • CD Credits—Yes, verifiable, but in the past discussions Skinny McGee has twisted the meaning of Executive Producer, diminishing Vargo's role to only that of financial and nothing creative, when it obviously includes, writing, performing and directing per the rest of the song credits and the radio interview, plus the statements by Douglas in the above sources. Skinny has also dimished the Monolith role, while inflating the Entity role to something grander that what it was at the time, a source of distribution and nothing more. I think the above references help to define the CD credits, and therefor we need them.

[edit] Questionable references

  • Haunted Attraction Magazine—appears to be friends with and affiliated with the band from reading the website and the Out of the Darkness CD acknowledgements. Band thanks the editor and his wife (Leonard and Jeanne Pickel) in the CD booklet and seems to have a long-standing friendship.
  • Scene Magazine—Jason Bracelin writier of the article also appears on the Out of the Darkness CD acknowledgements, and most of the article reads as a reprint of the band's press releases which have been posted on numerous sites such as PRweb and Gaming Report.
  • Frankly, anything post-2003 is questionable given the atmosphere between the band members and the apparent intent for which it was published—intent appearing to be to discredit Vargo for work he did on the albums and in promoting and directing them.
  • BMI/Amazon—this seems to be a gray area in this case. According to the BMI website, BMI gathers royalties for performances on radio, etc. BMI lists whatever the person registering the music chooses to list on the registration forms. It does no actual research on behalf of each album. BMI is not neccessarily a verifiable source if indeed Edward Douglas failed to list all of the credits properly as claimed by Vargo. Amazon similarly is a listing service, a catalog. The description of the CDs has been up there for years, and I am not sure who listed them, but I would assume it was the same person who listed the album on BMI, and that appears to have been Edward Douglas. So, I have to propose those two sources get tossed out as well.

[edit] Abusive comments made by Skinny McGee

Skinny McGee is extremely abusive in his statement [108] about Joseph Vargo when he refers to him as a "despicable human being." Admins might also beware that this appears in a Google search, and perhaps this page should therefor be protected from indexing if possible. GuardianZ 06:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Further evidence that Skinny McGee is very likely a member of Midnight Syndicate

This statement by Skinny McGee Talk:Midnight_Syndicate#Misuse_of_references_by_Skinny_McGee (2nd paragraph down) supports my belief that Skinny McGee is one of the band members. He states: "I think if you try to look at what I've edited from an outsider's perspective (instead of just comparing it to what you wrote), you would see that Vargo is given full credit. Looking at it that way has been helpful to me."

Aside from the fact that Skinny even then continued to remove credits for Vargo, change Vargo's credits to Edward Douglas' credits as evident here [109], Skinny McGee basically admits to previously viewing the matter from an insiders perspective. For this reason, I believe him to be a member of the band, and much too biased to be editing at all, especially given his abusive remarks above. GuardianZ 06:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Durova's comments on Blooferlady

Firstly, I am not Blooferlady. Plus all that was long before the Legion site went up. The fact is that many people have noticed there's some funny business going on and have obviously written in to Ms. Filipak, who makes no attempt to hide her identity[110]. I can't blame her for wanting to correct the misleading posts made in the references you linked to, but she never ever tried to hide her ID, nor did she post anything that was false. Promotional, yes, but not false. Whereas Skinny McGee and Midsyndicate did actually make false statements and remove credits to Vargo as evidenced earlier, and are both made promotional and sensational statements. I have sensationized nothing in this article and have strived to write only accurate statements and used only outside references. Granted, I found some of them from the Legion site, and some from just doing a Google search, but referred only to the original sources. I have never even posted anything like those posts by Blooferlady, and I have never posted under another IP as evidenced by the check user. If Ororboros somehow once posted under my IP I can't help that but I never signed in under any other name. If you assume good faith that Skinny is not Douglas, why can't you do the same for me?

Secondly, all of the reviews on Amazon for Vargo's Born of the Night book that you refer to are signed by the user's real names, none of which are the publisher. Also, Vargo was publishing Born of the Night calendars and t-shirts since 1992. I first purchased a 1992 Born of the Night calendar from their mailorder catalog. I still have several framed images from that calendar. The CD called Born of the Night was titled after those as referenced by the radio interview in 1998. I also got that CD from their mailorder catalog years later and even got a promo copy for review. Even the songs were titled after his other paintings, also evidenced in the radio interview, cd credits and comarison to the Monolith website, all of which Skinny McGee fought so hard to get removed but finally admits to.

If there is any off-color business going on, it appears to be more on the end of Midnight Syndicate. Please note these discussions on Amazon[111], and also note that one Angela Ryer [112], who's only reviews are 5-stars for MS, is the band's moderator for their Yahoo group[113] and MySpace [114].

GuardianZ 03:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence presented by Durova

The relevant diffs regarding my involvement at Talk:Midnight Syndicate have already been provided in the arbitration request although I think a clerk has removed the ones that show informal attempts at mediation. Clerks allowed similar evidence of informal mediation at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Agapetos angel where I had also been the mediator. In that other arbitration case another editor submitted the equivalent evidence without my consent and presented it in a manner I considered objectionable, which effectively dragged me into an arbitration where I would rather not have participated. So I don't see why that other submission remained as evidence at the other case but my own submission has been deleted here. I request that it be reinstated.

In reviewing the Midnight Syndicate dispute I have not identified one editor as a primary aggressor. Both sides appear to have violated several policies. The highly personal nature of the mutual accusations and the intimate knowledge these editors demonstrate regarding the band's business relationships lead me to suspect that they are either very closely connected to this band's members (former or current) or are band members themselves. Although the checkuser request confirmed only one sockpuppet, other suspected socks returned inconclusive results. Several accounts have behaved like sockpuppets or meat puppets on both sides.

These very muddy waters are the reason I have used my sysop tools only for the purpose of protecting and unprotecting the article. As with most of the administrators at WP:PAIN and WP:RFI, I hesitate to intervene in content disputes unless one side has clearly abided by site policies. The alternative I chose in this instance was to attempt mediation as long as it seemed feasible before referring the matter to the committee. To the best of my knowledge, no party to this arbitration case has challenged my impartiality. DurovaCharge! 22:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks like a technical issue affected the diffs I mentioned. Here's the evidence of my previous attempts to mediate.[115] [116] [117] [118] [119] In my view this doesn't seem to provide a mitigating circumstance for either side. DurovaCharge! 03:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:COI, WP:VANITY, and WP:NOT

The evidence that GuardianZ is closely linked to Joseph Vargo is well presented and I do not dispute it. It appears that the case for Skinny McGee's conflict of interest has not been presented with equivalent strength so I will offer a few diffs and quotes to supplement what GuardianZ has already presented along with some additional evidence against GuardianZ. This springs not from partisanship on my part but rather from a desire to fill gaps in the existing presentations.

On 11 February 2006 an account called Midsyndicate posted to User talk:Friday and self-identified as Edward Douglas. The full and rather lengthy post is available here.[120] Excerpts follow:

I am Edward Douglas. I am the founder of the band, Midnight Syndicate. One of the ONLY two members (Gavin Goszka is the other). Midnight Syndicate is a registered trademark of my company, Entity Productions, Inc. etc. I recently found that we were listed on Wikipedia and went to our listing. What I found was what you found. That the webmaster of our fiercest competitor (Nox Arcana) had gone and taken it upon herself to write a "history" of our band which is nothing more than a fabricated paragraph meant to damage our credibility and promote their project, Nox Arcana/Joseph Vargo. I couldn't believe it. This happened Friday night (2/10), I'm still learning about Wikipedia but I quickly clicked on EDIT and posted our bio and "upcoming projects" over top of the Nox Arcana post.

That identifies Edward Douglas as User:152.163.100.70. In three edits this unregistered IP rewrote significant portions of the article on 11 February 2006. A combined diff of the changes shows that this IP performed exactly the edits Midsyndicate describes, leading with the self-aggrandizing statement Composer Edward Douglas created Midnight Syndicate in 1996.[121] These changes were made about one hour before Midsyndicate posted to Friday's talk page. Prior to 11 February the most recent two edits had been minor: a capitalization change on 25 January 2006[122] deletion of a single word computer on 4 January 2006.[123]

Midsyndicate made one other edit on 20 February [124] which was nearly identical to the IP's 11 February changes.[125]

Incidentally, GuardianZ first appeared as a Wikipedia account on 14 February 2006. This account's second edit ever[126] was at the Midnight Syndicate article to revert Edward Douglas's IP changes.[127] This supports the hypothesis that GuardianZ is a sockpuppet of Blooferlady.

Skinny McGee's first edit at Wikipedia is a post to Talk:Midnight Syndicate on 26 October 2006.[128] It begins the following statement which is highly unlikely to come from a new user:

I would vote not to remove the earlier discussion. I think it's useful to see the entire history of an article. And, by the way, I agree with Dionyseus that this isn’t Oroboros 1's first account. I’m suspicious that this is the same person who has edited this article as Blooferlady, GuardianZ, and IP address 24.252.247.68 and that she is saying she's new here to cover her true motivations.

Skinny McGee's first post has a standard Wikipedia four tilde signaure. Yet the account's assertions from 26 October to the present are substantially the same as Edward Douglas's candid appeal of 11 February that concludes with a typed name and e-mail address (classic signs of a genuine new editor). Compare Douglas's assertion as Midsyndicate to Skinny's edit today.

11 February: Douglas/Midsyndicate: Joseph Vargo is listed as the EXECUTIVE Producer (not Producer) of "Born of the Night" (1998) where he recited five voiceovers (NOT music) and designed the packaging. He designed the packaging and did one voiceover on "Realm of Shadows" (1999). That's it. He was never a member of the band, never a producer. Quite the contrary, he is our fiercest competitor and has now taken defamation and doing things like this.
28 December: Skinny McGee: Douglas and Goszka wrote and performed all the music on the album, while Vargo served as executive producer and creative director of the project, wrote and performed the vocals and narrations, and designed the cover art and packaging.

The heart of this dispute is relative credit for Vargo, Douglas, and their affiliated firms. This has remained constant with the two sides conceding little ground regardless of the IP addresses or usernames involved. Given the type of success this band has achieved - primarily as atmospheric music for other entertainment - they are unlikely to have attracted the sort of fanbase that would conduct this dispute secondhand. Instead, the edit summary Reverted edits by former business partner attempting to discredit band. Removed links to defamatory site created by same former business partner is essentially an admission that fans are not warring on this page.[129] The IP address that posted this statement originates in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio - the same city where the band originates.[130] The IP address that Douglas/Midsyndicate admits having used on 11 February is an AOL account. A template on the later IP's talk page indicates a different shared IP. These circumstances may explain the difficulty in obtaining a conclusive checkuser to confirm GuardianZ's sockpuppet allegations.

GuardianZ's allegation that Dionyseus is a meatpuppet looks unfounded. Unlike the other two participants, Dionyseus participates on a broad range of topics and began editing in April 2005 with a change to the Garry Kasparov biography.[131] It appears to me that Dionyseus's participation in this dispute has been done in good faith.

To summarize, both GuardianZ and Skinny McGee appear to be unacknowledged sockpuppets of previous accounts whose participation at Wikipedia is severely compromised by professional conflicts of interest and who have been predominantly disruptive. In roughly a year of editing neither has demonstrated substantial respect for site policies. Their dispute at Wikipedia appears to be an outgrowth of a business dispute that originated several years previously and is unlikely to resolve in the foreseeable future. Per Edward Douglas's admission of 11 February, these two disputants are actually embittered competitors. The edit dispute and mutual self-promotion continue through today[132][133] and are unlikely to end unless the committee imposes external remedies. I do not see a similar conflict of interest in Dionyseus's participation and I support his evidence although, based on the additional evidence I present above, I have reached a different conclusion and have acted accordingly. DurovaCharge! 01:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Addendum: Blooferlady

In supplement to the evidence Dionyseus presents regarding Blooferlady and 70.187.67.246, note this excerpt from the original version of the deleted Joseph Vargo page, as of 09:02, 3 November 2005:

In 2005 Monolith Graphics released a first edition art book, Born of the Night: The Gothic Fantasy Artwork of Joseph Vargo, a lavish 184-page volume featuring over 100 paintings, illustrations and commentary by the artist.[134]

Less than an hour before posting that, the same IP's first edit at Wikipedia blanked the entire Midnight Syndicate article.[135] The next day the IP returned to the restored Midnight Syndicate page and rewrote it into a vanity profile for Joseph Vargo.[136]

So the motivation behind these edits appears linked to attempts at promoting the art book that Vargo named after a Midnight Syndicate release. The list price at Amazon.com for this volume is $24.99, a surprising bargain for a lavish book that contains 100 color plates.[137] Amazon lists no editorial reviews other than the (self-)publisher's own press release, which suggests that Vargo's manager/girlfriend Christine Filipak resorted to Wikipedia after other media efforts flagged. The Amazon.com page includes only two reader reviews,[138] one of which comes from an individual who seems to do nothing other than produce five-star praises for Vargo's work.[139]

If this is an accurate analysis then dubious business ethics are the root of the edit war. I hope by the close of this case the main participants on both sides realize the self-defeating nature of this dispute: something like hanging out one's dirty laundry for the webcam of the world's twelfth most popular Internet site. I really wish the named parties had compromised instead of driving this into arbitration. DurovaCharge! 00:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence presented by {your user name}

[edit] {Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

[edit] {Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.


[edit] Evidence presented by {your user name}

[edit] {Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

[edit] {Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.


[edit] Evidence presented by {your user name}

[edit] {Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

[edit] {Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.