Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance

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Case Opened on 21:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Case Closed on 01:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Watchlist all case pages: 1, 2, 3, 4

Please do not edit this page directly unless you are either 1) an Arbitrator, 2) an Arbitration Clerk, or 3) adding yourself to this case. Statements on this page are original comments provided at arbitration request and serve as opening statements. As such, they should not be altered. Any evidence you wish to provide to the Arbitrators should go on the /Evidence subpage.

Arbitrators, the parties, and other editors may suggest proposed principles, findings, and remedies at /Workshop. That page may also be used for general comments on the evidence. Arbitrators will then vote on a final decision in the case at /Proposed decision.

Once the case is closed, editors may add to the #Log of blocks and bans as needed, but this page should not be edited otherwise. Please raise any questions at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Requests for clarification, and report violations of remedies at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement.

[edit] Involved parties

PHG (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
Elonka (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • rights)
Eupator (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
WJBscribe (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • rights)
Jehochman (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • rights) (added as initiating party)

Other parties may need to be added.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Formal RfC (RfCHist), at Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#Request for comment

ANI thread, and multiple sub-threads: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/POV-pushing by User:PHG
ANI thread WP:ANI#Editorial and procedural abuses by User:Elonka
Mediation: Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Franco-Mongol alliance
Current ANI thread: [6]

[edit] Statement by Jehochman

This is long festering dispute about the addition of ahistorical information to Middle Ages articles. Not unlike Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sadi Carnot we have a longstanding editor who appears to be publishing original research in Wikipedia, misrepresenting sources, and frustrating the deletion process and consensus by tendentiously reinstalling content that the community has decided to remove.

Mediation of the content dispute was attempted, but User:Tariqabjotu closed the case because the process was failing. PHG has now decided to increase the drama a notch by calling for Elonka to resign,[7]. The claims of bad faith are flying. Before this degenerates further, I request that the Committee scrutinize the behavior of all parties. Jehochman ^Talk 15:07, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I am very concerned that severe damage is being done to the encyclopedia through the addition of unverifiable, ahistorical information to a large number of articles. The community has been unable to control the problem. This has been going on for half a year. Rather than blocking PHG, which would be highly controversial, though justifiable in my opinion, I am bringing the matter here instead. ArbCom has sharper tools, and hopefully can craft a less restrictive remedy. Previous discussions in other forums have failed to produce any sort of resolution. The problem appears to be getting worse, not better. Arbitration sooner rather than later will help reduce the amount of disruption and bad blood. Jehochman ^Talk 15:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's a deleted article: [8] Mongol raids on Jerusalem

Here's a listed source: [9]

How does this source, which makes about five passing references to Jerusalem, the most on point one being, "the Frankish Crusaders, clinging precariously to a narrow strip of Syrian coast, both hoped and feared that the Mongols might drive the Muslims from Jerusalem and restore the holy places to Christian possession.", support an article that starts out with, "In 1260, the Mongol ruler Hulagu conquered vast parts of the Holy Land, usually in alliance with the Franks and the Christian Armenians."? Jehochman ^Talk 14:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Statement by Elonka

My statement is going to be about two views here, one in how I see this on-wiki, and another off. On-wiki, I don't think it's appropriate to have an ArbCom case on this at this time. I see ArbCom as something that is needed for complex user conduct cases, where the community has not been successful in dealing with them via other means. In this particular case, the community has been successful. We had one editor, PHG, who has been camping on an article in violation of WP:OWN, who has been using bad sources and has been misinterpreting good sources, and has been creating multiple POV forks. See User:Elonka/Mongol quickref for a few paragraphs that give context about the history involved, and the related content disputes. The proper way to handle this via Wikipedia procedures (without ArbCom) is to identify problems with the article(s), build consensus on the talkpage(s), and proceed with cleanup. Which is exactly what we've been doing lately. Now, it is true that in the early part of this dispute, meaning Fall 2007, things were exacerbated because we didn't have very many participants who understood the history involved, so we ended up with a kind of stalemate between me and PHG, with him saying, "Here's the history," and me saying, "No, that's not history, that's you cherry-picking and misinterpreting sources." Over the last month (January 2008) though, we have gotten more editors in to look at the situation, and consensus-building has been much easier (except for PHG). So, in a case where we have one editor who is not willing to work in a cooperative and collegial manner with other editors towards consensus-building, we already have Wikipedia procedures in place -- we have uninvolved administrators who can look into the situation, and warn and block as necessary. There is no need for ArbCom, as all that ArbCom would be able to do would be to confirm the same thing that any uninvolved administrator would: "PHG is being disruptive, PHG is reverting obsessively, PHG should be blocked if he continues to disrupt." We don't need a multi-month ArbCom case that wastes dozens of hours of time on the part of multiple good editors, to come up with that same conclusion.

And now, the off-wiki aspect. There are times in my life that I've got lots of free time for Wikipedia, and there are times that I don't. This coming month is going to be a "don't" time, since I've got a major tradeshow coming up in a few weeks. So if it's decided that there is going to be an ArbCom case on this, I just won't be able to participate much. Which will put ArbCom and the other participants in an awkward situation where they're forced to decide on either proceeding without me, or by further extending the case to allow time for me to assemble my own evidence. Which (my free time availability) I know is not one of the major factors on "should a case be accepted or not," but I wanted to make the Committee aware.

My own off-wiki time constraints aside though, I still recommend that this case not be accepted. The community is already dealing with the situation, and I can't see as any ArbCom decision would really change much about how the situation is proceeding. What would the result be? "PHG has been disruptive, PHG is cautioned to work in a collegial manner with other editors. Anyone engaging in disruptive behavior can be blocked by any uninvolved administrator." Which is what we're already doing. --El on ka 09:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Since the case is open, I have posted an expanded statement in my evidence section. --El on ka 07:19, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Statement by PHG

I have been contributing to Wikipedia since 2004/03/06, with over 23,389 edits to date, all referenced from reputable published material. I created more than 200 articles, and 8 articles which I created or unstubbed reached FA status (Boshin War, Imperial Japanese Navy, Hasekura Tsunenaga, Indo-Greek Kingdom, History of Buddhism etc...). I also have contributed hundreds of photographs from Museums around the world. My main interests revolve around cultural interaction through the Ages, and I enjoy developing content on these subjects. I am a multinational business manager, with over 20 years experience working in Asia, the US and Europe. I am a fervent supporter of Wikipedia:NPOV policy, according to which all significant views should be presented in articles.

When I created the Franco-Mongol alliance article in August 2007, I soon entered into heated discussions with Elonka whether there was actually an alliance or not and other details. She first tried to have the article renamed, but failed (here). Despite the quantity of authors who specifically described this alliance (here), she kept arguing that the view was "fringe" and did not deserve balanced representation with the alternative view ("only attempts at an alliance"...). She then tried quite violently to discredit me through the Administrator notice board, but again failed (here), thanks to several users who spoke up for me. I responded by pointing out her behaviour (here), without asking for punitive action. Actually her actions in relation to this article generated many of the Opposes in her recent nomination as Admin (here). She still spends a huge amount of time leaving enormous diatribes against me on various Talk Pages and User Pages (here or here for example). I even had to file a claim for harassment (here). Besides, I'm glad I'm not the only one: Elonka has a huge history of dubious disputes and litigations with many other contributors as well (an example).

Recently, Elonka again attacked the Franco-Mongol alliance page, trying to force her own rewrite, deleting 130k of content established collaboratively over a period of 6 months and over 300 academic sources, through false claims of consensus (Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#False claim of consensus). I think this conduct is unrespectfull of Wikipedia rules and unethical. She also has thrown false accusations in order to smear me (Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#Why is the "longer version" get even longer?), and resorted to personal attacks, calling me a lier [10], when she is actually the one lying about facts, like claiming I added 50k of new content through a reinstalment of deleted content (here). On the Franco-Mongol alliance article I have only been upholding Wikipedia's rule that is there is no consensus for a replacement of a main article by an individual's own version, then the status quo should prevail. I expect every Wikipedian to uphold these rules as well.

What the heck? I'm here to share knowledge and contribute fascinating, referenced, stuff about ancient history and cultural interaction, and I must say I am not at all interested in Wikipedia politics or lobbying day long against specific users. Best regards to all. PHG (talk) 11:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Statement by WJBscribe

I am in two minds about whether this matter is appropriate for ArbCom. On the one hand, we do have mounting user conduct issues - especially the increasingly ludicrous ownership of the central article by PHG - and a failed attempt at mediation. On the other, we have a dispute heavily routed in content that is hard to process without getting involved in those issues. Involving itself in matters of content is something ArbCom prefers not to do but where the central issues are about accuracy of information, representation of sources and neutral POV it is hard to separate conduct and content. Violation of content policies is misconduct but it is hard to determine whether such conduct breaches have occured without taking a view on the content questions. Ultimately either PHG is trying to push a misleading account of the events covered by the article or he is not.

If ArbCom is willing to have a thorough look at this issue - including the underlying problems with whether Wikipedia policies on neutral point of view and fringe theories have been followed - then there are clear merits in pursuing this case. If only the most superficial of conduct issues will be touched upon, then this will likely prove a waste of time. A general admonishment for participants to work towards consensus isn't in my opinion going to be of help here. WjBscribe 15:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Preliminary decisions

[edit] Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (7/2/0/1)

Accept to look at user conduct issues that are interfering with reaching consensus. The Community has not been able to sort this out. FloNight (talk) 21:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Accept; per Flonight there is disruption of article writing; serious issues of user conduct are alleged and there has been a failure of mediation. Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Accept. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Decline, we are unlikely to be able to help. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 03:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Accept. Deskana (talk) 11:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Accept. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Decline, I'm inclined to agree with UC. I've asked a few editors to give their opinions. I may change my mind based upon further review. Paul August ☎ 18:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Accept. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 05:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Accept, per Sam Blacketer. --bainer (talk) 08:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Recuse - Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Temporary injunction (none)

[edit] Final decision

All numbering based on /Proposed decision (vote counts and comments are there as well)

[edit] Principles

[edit] Purpose of Wikipedia

1) The purpose of Wikipedia is to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among contributors.