Talk:Republika Srpska/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Banknote

Nikola Smolenski (Talk) (→Miscellaneous - Why would BH banknote be in article on RS?)

Anwswer: The BH banknote is the official currency of the RS. Furthermore this particular banknote featuring Brank Copic is the RS edition of the BH 50KM banknote. Stop removing it.

Change this

To some, the name and insignia of Republika Srpska are inherently intolerant towards other Bosnians and evoke very negative connotations of war-time problems for them. Is there a need for this. Is this very neutral? The very image of a "bosnian muslim" state, flag, insignia makes me want to vommit, but is that listed here? This is about Republika Srpska and not about the muslims. --Milan20 04:55, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


I think the reason for this is that the court case was filed in BH constitutional court recently that asks for the change of the name and insignia of Republika Srpska. In fact for similar complaints Bosnian independence flag was abolished. --Dado 18:08, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Need for edit and overhaul

Frankly, this entire page is a disastrous mess. The bulk of the entry is neither correct, nor neutral, nor objective. It is is constantly peppered with rank irrelevancies and attacks upon one side or the other as well as irrelevant characterizations of some of the historical figures. Even this discussion page contains this sort of clearly absurd and non-neutral commentary (see 67.95.81.62's comments below). To make matters worse, the page has been freely edited by people who have, at best, a secondary understanding of the English language, as demonstrated by prodigious errors in spelling, grammar and diction - particularly when an insult or POV about the history of Bosnia is being expressed. It is worth working on the page by one or two people who are prepared to objectively repair this page. Please leave a mesage at my page if you would like to work with me to fix this (and some related pages). As it stands, this page is basically useless for anyone seeking information on the political entities in question.

--Nicodemus75 09:17, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Please don't "organize" work on some semi-random talk pages and instead work on it here and discuss it here. --Joy [shallot] 13:23, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If I wish to "organize" a discussion about something on my own talk page, that is my preorgative. This is a perfect example of a page that people may wish to have seperate conversation considering the amount of non-neutral POV nonsense that has infiltrated the main article as well as the talk page. --Nicodemus75 07:53, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Description of creation

The Republic was formed by the Serbs of Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1992 after being disenfranchised by the joint Muslim-Croat political and later military alliance in Bosnia.

This is hardly an objective description of what happened, as I am sure you know. Adam 04:07, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

That's a little better.2toise 04:26, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I am sorry, but the disenfranchised comment is neither neutral nor correct - if a 67% majority including many Serbs voted for independence in a multi-ethnic state how is that disenfranchising Bosnian Serbs?

Internet domain

Regarding the top-level domain (TLD) -- the web page www.rs.sr seems to talk about getting the .SR TLD for the Entity (I don't read Cyrillic too well), but that's not done and .RS.SR is a second-level domain. Given that there's also .RS.BA, that both seem to be commercial entities, and that the institutions of are not using either, I doubt that either really qualify for an official listing... --Shallot 17:07, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

To expand a little bit about this, there seems to be a lack of consensus as to where the RS pages should be located. There's vladars.net and predsjednikrs.net for the government and the president, but the securities commission is at khov-rs.org, the constitutional court is at ustavnisud.org, the privatization direction is at rsprivatizacija.com, chamber of commerce at pkrs.inecco.net, the statistics institute is at rzs.rs.ba, and the customs administration is at rucrs.com. The city of Banja Luka is at banjaluka.rs.ba, the university is at urc.bl.ac.yu, and etfbl.net is the electrotechnics faculty. Overall, there's still way too much diversity to list any domain as official. --Shallot 20:46, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

It seems that SARNET, the academic network of RS, is the .rs.ba NIC, and that's usually a step in making a domain the official one. However, they're not actually consistent in using it, since google still finds them primarily at sarnet.bl.ac.yu, and there's no redirection from there to sarnet.rs.ba. --Joy [shallot]

I've also noticed that the Radio Television company of RS is at rtrs.tv or rtrs-bl.com. --Joy [shallot]

This page also has a few more, and also mostly .org and whatnot. --Joy [shallot] 22:41, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Stamps

I returned older text as User:TOttenville8 says that he was unable to purchase these stamps in San Francisco. I found no mention online of this. Rmhermen 13:46, Mar 21, 2004 (UTC)

Unable to purchase them, from whom, where, when, why? That's nonsense. You can buy the stamps on Ebay, unless of course TOttenville8 claims that Ebay is breaking the law as well?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=srpska&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&BasicSearch= Igor

Oh, I think that part is minor, he's merely trying to cover up the fact that there were scores of Bosnian Muslims living in Prijedor, Banja Luka and elsewhere in what is now RS and that they were mostly expulsed by the Bosnian Serbs during the war. That might undermine the whole point of this artificial political division, and we can't have that... :p --Shallot 16:47, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Yes but those Muslims never formed a majority in the region of Banjaluka as was written. Besides, the Sarajevo Serbs suffered much more ethnic cleansing (both numerically and percentage-wise) than the Bosnian Muslims Banja Luka. -- Igor
Just for the record, I found a related and very explicit quote at an ICTY indictment:
According to a census in 1991 the total population of the Bosanska Krajina region was 1,191,709 of whom 567,293 were Serbs, 439,935 were Bosnian Muslims and 103,111 Croats. There were, however, only a majority of Muslims and Croats, in Sanski Most, Prijedor, Kotor Varos and Bosanska Krupa municipalities.
So, it's true that the phrase "Serbs ... constituted a minority of the population in and around Banja Luka before the fighting" was incorrect (perhaps plurality in places, but not minority), but everything else and the overall meaning wasn't incorrect. --Joy [shallot]

.SR top domaine...

...doesn't it stand for Suriname, not Serbia? Just a cyberfreak out here...

Greetings, Muhamed

That's right. Serbia doesn't have a TLD - see the list at http://www.iana.org/cctld/cctld-whois.htm . It still comes under .YU. -- ChrisO 12:09, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

67.95.81.62's comments

Republic of Serbs needs to be taken from all the maps and documents, since it is a fashist state, created by war criminals, and by force against a civil population of Bosnia (Croats and Bosnian Muslims), it was created as a part of dictatorship idea of creation of greater Serbia. If Serbs are not happy to live with other nationalities in Bosnia they should move to Serbia. Milosevic is a war criminal as well as his communist JNA (Yugoslav People's Army) did this with help of the nationalist Bosnian serbs. John

Dear John, Serbs and Croats have been living there since 6th century when their tribes came to Balcan. So called Muslims or Bosniaks are actually(mostly) those Serbs and Croats that were islamised during Othoman empire and been living with turkish masters for 500 years of occupation. Please go read history of Balcan(books before war recomended). Officially Muslims have been invented in 1968 and Bosniaks in 1993. Think why they called themself muslims with big M? I call this crisis of identity.

Btw Croats also had their state called Herceg-Bosna that is suposed to became part of Great Croatia, Croats also fighted with Muslims and Muslims also fighted Muslims especially in around Cazin and Bihac. And it's even more complicated, but it's too much to write...

Well said John. This so called Republic of Serbs is a product of ethnical cleansing and should be dismantled. It is a byproduct of Dayton Peace Accord and de facto it is award for the crimes that Serbian forces committed against Bosnian non-Serb population. Existence of this un-natural state, which turned segregation into the law of the land, is a major cause of instability in a region.

Official language(s)?

According to the webpage of the Republika Srpska government, the Constitutional amendment LXXI provides that "the official languages are the Serbian language, Croatian language and Bosnian language, refered to by the Constitution as Bosniak language", replacing paragraph 1. of article 7. of the RS Constitution. Would someone please correct the article and the adjoining table? Thx, Muhamedmesic 16:09, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Done. -- ChrisO 17:25, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)
ChrisO, I'm beginning to admire you. - Muhamedmesic 19:46, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Names of towns

It's not really relevant, but here it comes: according to the Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina and this Republika Srpska source of news, the names of several renamed towns and municipalities in Republika Srpska, including Srbinje (previously Foca), Srpsko Sarajevo (previously Lukavica), Srpski Drvar (previously Drvar), Srpski Sanski Most (previously Sanski Most), Srpski Mostar (previously part of Mostar Municipality), Srpski Kljuc (previously Kljuc), Srpska Kostajnica (previously Bosanska Kostajnica), Srpski Brod (previously Bosanski Brod), and a couple others (to spare you of the list) are unconstitutional and must be accordingly changed in the appropriate RS law. Until that is done, the court has reversed their names to their 1992 ones.

We watch TV. I doubt that local population will use new/old names however. Nikola 14:29, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
The names are changed again. Should we follow the new names (and how, literally or translated) or just leave the articles as they are? This whole naming issue might deserve an article... Nikola 09:01, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Official clarification page

Republika Srpska government has a page that shows the present status of municipality names. Follow this link to track the changes

Map should be fixed

Its good that there is now a map on this article. However the map is faulty in that shows the Brcko district as part of Republika Srpska. Whatsmore it isnt of the best quality. If someone has the time Id suggest editing one of the maps I made on the Bosnia and Herzegovina page on Bosnian wiki [1]. Asim Led 04:30, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)


The map is ok

The map is not false because it portrays the entity in its entirety - including the Republika Srpska territory within the Brcko District. Claim that the Brcko District is not part of either the Federation or Republika Srpska might de facto be true (that is how things are run on the ground), but de iure it is false. If the Brcko District was not part of either entity, this would imply that the District is in fact the third entity. This would be a major breach of the general framework of the Dayton peace agreement (and Bosnia-Herzegovina constitution), which states that the country is internally composed of only two entities. Also, the Brcko District as 'not part of either entity' would make the territorial formula agreed at Dayton (49% of Bosnia-Herzegovina as Republika Srpska, 51% as Federation) unworkable. OHR, Office of the High Representative, provided a clarification on the status of the Brcko District, stating that the District is in fact a condominium of both entities. This would mean that the territory of the District is shared by both entities, although the entities exercise no executive power there. In other words, the Brcko District territory is both Republika Srpska and the Federation. Technically, this would apply to the whole territory of the District - in that way, there is no third entity, and 49-51% formula is (somehow) preserved. That said, it should be pointed out that the Brcko District was proclaimed on the whole territory of the prewar Brcko municipality. According to the Dayton map, 42% of the prewar Brcko municipality (including the town of Brcko) ended up in the Republika Srpska (this is the District territory marked on the Republika Srpska map in the article), while 58% of the prewar Brcko municipality ended up in the Federation (this part of the District is not marked on the map). Although the Brcko District was proclaimed in 1999, IEBL (Inter Entity Boundary Line) within its territory was never officially abolished; IEBL plays no administrative function within the District, except to mark the line beyond which the Bosnian Serb Army (Vojska Republike Srpske) traveling through the District can not go. Thus, it remains unclear how the entities hold the condominium over the whole District if the IEBL still exists on the books, and the District was created out of uneven chunks of both entity's territory. Given the fact that the Republika Srpska never officially accepted the arbitration result (one of the reasons IEBL was never officially abolished), the only solution is to show the Republika Srpska territory within the Brcko District (42% of it) on the Republika Srpska entity map, but color it differently (as done on the article map). The same formula should be used vis-à-vis the Federation territory within the Brcko District (58% of it) on the Federation entity map. When you put all of this together, you have a map of Bosnia-Herzegovina showing only two entities but also acknowledging the existence of the Brcko District - the neutral position.

p.s.

The 'condominium' idea is demonstrated by the way in which people declare themselves within the District. Citizens of the District have a right to hold entity citizenship of either Republika Srpska or the Federation, and have the right to vote on their entity's elections, although they are banned from serving in either entity's army.

Major overhaul needed

I would completely agree that this page needs a major overhaul especially in light of the most recent events in BH and RS. There should be some system of relevance and priority of information. How do information about postage stamps find their place at the top of the historical facts of the article is beyond me. Other items need to be updated: RS's ministry of internal affairs (police) and ministry of defense (military) were abolished in mid Dec of 2004 and integrated with BH ministries, I also believe that the customs department was integrated with BH although I cannot confirm this. These items should be replaced and moveed if anywhere than in the "History" portion of the article. "On the Internet" part of the article is laughable and useless, and a case point of how POV's go awry. I can begin making some changes but want to have a concensus before any of the changes get reverted.--Dado 02:52, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The information about police and military ministries is partially up to date, and it's definitely not just "history", because it's a current political issue. I believe the customs department has long been part of the BH customs system, but each entity has preserved some jurisdiction over the customs in their territory... The stuff about Internet domains is most certainly not useless — if anything, as you say yourself, it shows how things are unsettled.
On a side note, what is this trend with suddenly discussing major changes here? If something needs to be done, just do it. If it doesn't, don't. Where's the problem? The anonymous vandals for one have had no problem with being bold in editing this page, I don't see what's stopping normal users :) --Joy [shallot] 07:52, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Dado, thanks for some support in terms of the need to overhaul this article. It definitely needs to be a collaborative effort for a variety of reasons. With respect to internet domain names, please be serious - it is a footnote at best and the amount of space dedicated to it in this article is completely laughable - unsettled or not. The postage stamp issue is equally absurd when compared to virtually any other country or similar political zone with a page on wikipedia. In response to Joy's "side note", the reason why this 'trend' is cropping up, is because of the amount of work required on a page which has been so poorly written and subjected to POV and non-neutral contribution, is so incredibly massive, that even experienced contributors have grown tired of investing time and energy into pages which will be subjected to revert wars and vandalism, without a collaborative effort and some concensus. I actually think this would be obvious given some of the revert wars that have and continue to plague wikipedia. Collaboration and discussion prior to investing hours of time and effort on an article such as this one, are necessary to prevent wasted time and duplication of labor. --Nicodemus75 08:05, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Postage stamps and Internet domains wouldn't stand out so much if we had better organized history, politics, geography, ... sections. The page will either have "silly" sections or be "poor" in content, until someone writes the missing stuff. And the only way to write the missing stuff is to actually do it. Talk about it on the talk page may help if we have contentious issues to discuss, but right now we don't have that, either, because all this cool new text -- doesn't exist.
Also note that I've been active for months with reference to vandalism etc, so I really don't need to be lectured on how experienced contributors have grown tired of investing time and energy into this page. --Joy [shallot] 11:09, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Joy, thanks for taking time to make the changes. I wanted to have this discussion before this major change took place so that there is an evident trail of thought behind the revision. I will contribute to the article as needed from this point on.--Dado 18:49, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)