Talk:Republic of Korea Marine Corps

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This article needs to be cleaned up a lot.

Came across this page and found it severely lacking in clarity and organization. I've tried to reorganize the content more intelligibly and correct grammar, but it still needs a lot of work. In particular, I've tried to avoid addressing the actual facts and figures on this page (as I'm not qualified to speak to them all); there are inconsistencies (e.g. kill ratio in Vietnam: is it 1-to-24 or 1-to-25?) and potential hyperbole ("one of the deadliest fighting forces in the world"), and no specific references are provided to back up this content.
Not trying to knock the article, as I've heard independently of the exploits of the Korean marines; I just think additional cleanup on facts and references is warranted.--143.127.3.10 00:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] I Agree that this needs to be cleaned up.

As far as the previous comment, I can attest to that many US Vietnam Vets also knew of the reputation of the ROK Marines. My father is a ROK having served in Vietnam and he always has former Vets thanking him for their contribution to the war. It is true that the ROK marines fought fiercely with minimal casualities. However, it was left out that they were not as constrained as their US counterparts were. Many times, battles were fought in an all out manner whereas the US forces fought to complete an objective. Perhaps this is the reason for their success.

I also disagree that many people were confused about the Korean involvement in Vietnam and that is deeply affected Korea. Many soldiers went as a duty to their country as well as a way to earn money. Remember that many of the soldiers that went to Vietnam saw the same threat that they had grown up with the invasion of Communist forces from North Korea. And unlike US forces, very few Korean troops returned with psychological problems. Matter in fact, it may surprise you that many are successful business owners in the US and many are CEOs of major companies.

Whoever wrote this was obviously trying to put a liberal spin on the topic. No Korean saw Vietnam as an invasion by a foreign country.


By the way, my father both laughed and cursed at this article.

I am not saying all Korean marines that came back from Nam were ok in the head. But unlike their American counterparts, they seemed to not have suffered PTSD to the same degrees and numbers. I have 2 uncles besides my father that came back from Nam without PTSD.

[edit] One, Two or Three cases do not a statistic make...

In a way, you are both right. Many American soldiers, Marines, etc, came back with PTSD, truth... but many did not. In fact, PTSD or "shell-shock" was first identified around the time of the American civil war...but surely it existed before then. In either case, although ancedotes are useful for histograpghy, one tale of PTSD or three tales of abscence do not make a useful statsitic, especially when dealing with battallions, regiments or larger formations. Find some research, for although South Korea did not have the numbers in Vietnam that the United States did, there are most probably medical reports and statistics. Further, for the record, the American units that suffered worse from PTSD and other medical problems were mostly Army draftees, rather than Marines or elite Army (Rangers, etc). Just my two cents... again V. Joe 16:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I agree

This article is highly POV, especially as concerns the section of Viet Nam. I have no idea if those facts are correct, but I know POV when I see it. If someone who knew more about the Korean language could write it. If not, I suggest that the section on Viet Nam be deleted until someone can make it NPOV. I'd do it, but I don't know anything about this topic. Reply here and let me know if you agree --V. Joe 21:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ROK Marines

"is considered to be one of the deadliest fighting forces in the world." From what I hear from all the US Marines who trained with them, I would definately have to agree. Apparently their method of training is incredibly harsh and vigorous, and instead of the song cadences we use in the US, they have whistles. But oddly enough, they seem to have an intense respect for the US Marines instead....


[edit] Operation Van Buren

Hi, friends; I was reading about the ROKMC and the incredible kill ratio during Operation Van Buren today. I couldn't believe those numbers (13 taking 400+ with only two losses), so I did a little digging for source material. Here's what I've found.

1) I found a US military wartime document concerning military developments in South Vietnam. This doc was Secret but has been declassified. http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/star/images/041/0410335001.pdf

Quoting page 12, section 5:

"In II Corps Area, US forces conducted batallion-size search and clear operations. ARVN forces initiated pacification activities along the east side of Route 1 north of Bong Son, and ROK forces continued to secure Route 1. Cumulative friendly losses from this month-long operation are now 366 killed (239 US, 4 ROK, 123 RVN), 1,206 wounded (828 US, 28 ROK, 358 ARVN) and 6 US missing. Enemy losses were 1,742 killed, 430 captured, and over 2,000 suspects detained, 302 individual weapons and 63 crew-served weapons seized. Operation VAN BUREN, conducted by the 1st Brigade, US 101st Airborne Division and the Korean Marine Brigade in the rice harvest area southwest of Tuy Hoa, terminated on 21 February with over 30,000 tons of rice harvested. Friendly losses from this 32-day operation were 98 killed (54 US, 44 ROK), 309 wounded (194 US, 115 ROK) and 2 ROK missing. Viet Cong losses were 670 killed, 49 captured and 153 weapons seized."

2) I found a forum posting that seems to detail the battle where those hard to verify stats come from. http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/74-571.aspx

Quoting directly,

"HanKim RE:koreans and operation Van Buren 1/25/2004 6:32:27 AM

The web page is probably talking about the battle at Tra Bihn Dong between the ROK Marines of 11th Company, 3rd Battalion, 2nd Brigade(aka Blue Dragons) and a regimental sized NVA force. I believe the web page is off by ONLY one order of magnitude. It was around 300 Korean marines defending a company OP rather than 13. There were around 15 KIA on the Korean side with many more wounded. The NVA suffered at least 240 confirmed KIA with possibly 60 more KIA, and 2 NVA were captured. The marines captured scores of enemy weoponry, including 3 czech-made flame throwers, several rpgs and machine guns and assorted small arms. The NVA goals were to overrun the company and with follow on forces attack the ROK artillery units and an American airbase at nearby Chu Lai. During the 4 hour night battle, the NVA penetrated the barb wire multiple times and had artillery support. NVA artillery hit the ammunition stores for the ROK's 4.2" mortars but the collapsing sandbags prevented secondary explosions which would have been devastating. The ROK marines disassembled their own heavy machine guns, mortars and recoiless rifle to prevent them from falling into enemy hands. Squads and fire teams moved behind the NVA that had penetrated the base along the trenches the NVA had previously overrun to counter attack. In these counter attacks, the ROK marines captured the flame throwers and machine guns the NVA had used to break through on the NVA. There were many instances of hand-to-hand combat with trenching tools. The presence of mind and combat skills displayed by the ROK marines that night is truly amazing. Han" Wingchild 17:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Battle_of_Tra_Binh_Dong has a page, and seems to be more accurate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.20.241.158 (talk) 14:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WPMILHIST Assessment

Definitely needs expansion and cleanup. I do not notice any glaring problems with the Vietnam War section, other than some clunky language and the fact that it disproportionately dominates the article. It does not necessarily need to be removed, but does need to be subsumed into a lengthier, broader discussion of the overall history and structure of the Corps. The articles for the ROK Army, Navy, and Air Force are all fine examples of ways to discuss military branches without unbalancing the article towards the branch's role in a particular conflict. LordAmeth 14:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Needed

"which a squad of ROK Marines wiped out an entire battalion of Communist forces." Can we have a citation for this? I know they're elite troops, but this is amazing/unbelieveable. They won't even have enough ammunition to kill 800 men. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.87.1.172 (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC).