Talk:Religious views of suicide

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There are two articles on this subject, the other being Suicide and religion. Is anybody against merging these two pages?

--user:c_mon January 19 2006, 21u51

Contents 1 I'm Wondering 2 cleanup-rewrite 3 Qaradawi 4 In Islam section 5 broken link 6 Additional source on Judaism 7 Matthew in Old Testament?

[edit] I'm Wondering

Im Roman Catholic. It's says if a person commits suicide, they go to Hell. What is they do it to save some 1 else's life? (Like that guy from the movie "Independence Day", when the pilot/father killed himself by flying into the enemy ship. The guy I'm talking about, I believe his last line was "Im Back!".)

That's not suicide -- it's sacrifice. There's a big difference. Similarly, a soldier who takes a grenade for his team or a captain who destroys his ship rather than let it fall into enemy hands is committing an act of heroism, not sin. We have this on no less an authority than Jesus himself: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

I'm Catholic too, and I've always been uneasy with the idea that suicides are automatically damned. I don't think that's official doctrine anymore, but it never should have been in the first place. God's forgiveness is infinite; the classic argument that a suicide can't repent because he's no longer alive ignores the fact that God is outside of time. We can't presume to know someone's in Hell no matter what he's done. ~ CZeke 03:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] cleanup-rewrite

There are all sorts of problems here. First of all, the islam section is mixing arabic and english text in a way which seems to make no sense, and has lots of other problems. The Judaism section is bad for a number of reasons, such as the use of "G-d" instead of God, improper listing of references, and the fact that the second half of this section is about pain medication rather than suicide. The modern christianity and Hinduism sections are unreferenced and I'm not sure they're even accurate. The Modern Catholicism section uses the phrase "mortal death", is that an actual term in catholicism? I'm sure there's more wrong with this article which I didn't notice upon my brief inspection. --Xyzzyplugh 13:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

In Judaism, it's considered improper to write the full name of God, so they tend to skip the vowels. Le Messor 03:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Is it just me, or does this sentence make no sense?

Suicide is forbiden in all circumstances even in war, since the Prophet sal Allahu alihi wa sal-lam said about the man who had been afflicted in a battle with many wounds and killed himself that he will be in the Hell fire.

- LeaHazel 20:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I think this pair of sentences make no sense: no specific verse that explicitly states that suicide leads directly to Hell. As a result, there is a growing belief that Christians who commit suicide are still granted Eternal life.

Wouldn't eternal life be Hell to somebody who hates life enough to commit suicide? Maybe "granted entry into Heaven," or simply "are still forgiven" would be better? Le Messor 02:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Qaradawi

Some modern `Ulama (like Yusuf Qaradawi) don't consider suicide-bombers to be "real" suicides. AnonMoos 19:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The Islamic section has obviously been vandalized. I do not feel learned enough on the topic to edit it myself, but it definitely needs to be changed.

[edit] In Islam section

In "although Allah is said to be 'the Most Merciful, the Most Kind' and to forgive all sins, the great sin of unbelief is deemed unforgivable."

This is just not neutral(sarcasm) and plain wrong. why?

• The article is about religious views of suicide not religious views on "unbelief".

• Because it clearly states that there is a contradiction in the Quran, which resulted from the wrong interpretation and misunderstanding of 'the Most Merciful, the Most Kind' which is a lossy translation of "الرحمن الرحيم", I don't claim that I have the perfect translation for it.

In Islam, suicide is unforgivable. why?

Isn't it self-explanatory? anyway, <POV>because you don't exist in this life anymore to ask for forgiveness!</POV> also <Non-POV:Islam's view>because you don't own yourself to end your life whenever you want.</Non-POV:Islam's view>...

Now, can someone remove that sentence? or shall I remove it myself?

Kind regards --Alnokta 22:19, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] broken link

Link for reference [1] goes to something else Wreader 00:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional source on Judaism

Years ago, I read an article by Fred Rosner in the book "Jewish Bioethics" that he co-edited with J. David Bleich on the subject of suicide in Jewish law. I don't have the book, but it may be a useful source. Shalom (Hello • Peace) 05:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Matthew in Old Testament?

The following sentence seems to suggest that Matthew is in the Old Testament - it's not! I'm not sure how best to change it though: "There were seven suicides in the Old Testament,[4] most notably in Matthew 27:3, the suicide of Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.78.44.65 (talk) 17:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)